Where are we with the Tiki Gardens Memorial fund?

Any recent totals?

Sadly, I recieved this e-mail from Cy yesterday:

"Guys, I regret to inform you that following our presentation to the Pinellas County Parks Advisory Board next week, tikigardens.com will no longer be associated with tikicentral.com, tikinews.com, or exotic-tiki-gardens.com in any effort to erect a tiki statue at the site of the former tiki gardens. We had anticipated offering assistance in terms of financing and presenting to the parks board, but we did not foresee having to foot all but $625 of a $7,000 - $8,500 bill.
Please note- we respectfully defer to tikigardener regarding retaining wayne and building the statue; i.e, if you choose to go forward with this project, we will bow out and forward our proposal (including schematics) to tikigardener, KailuaGeoff or a designated agent. Also, please make no mistake- we will sell this project into the county, no matter who completes it, because it is a worthy project.

we're sorry it's come to this; all we would say is an idea isn't worth a damn until you decide to act upon it and then follow thru, and sadly there's been a whole lot of that not happening in this case. best, chris y"

It's too bad - I would have liked to see this happen - even if I never actually went there....

that's a bummer.

:(

So we ended up pitching in $625?!
That's an utter disgrace.

As DOA once sang, "Talk minus action equals zero".

Trader Woody

On 2003-02-14 06:25, Trader Woody wrote:

As DOA once sang, "Talk minus action equals zero".

Trader Woody

or in this case, a measley 625 bucks.

Dead On Arrival indeed,
tiki chris

Bummer indeed. I hate to give up on what seemed so promising at that time, but a Beachcomber's got to admit when the tide goes against him.

It's obvious to me that the majority of these TC'ers never really intended to follow through.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this - I don't care. Shame on all of you who pledged & never came through. The majority of your pledges were for a measly $20 bucks. I'm trying to buy a house & have a baby on the way - I still kicked in. What's your excuse? So much for really caring about Tiki...

they were too distracted with pirating the Tiki Gardens CD and polishing their Jimmy Buffet records

hahahahaahaha

oops sorry-
forgive me
I live a very unhappy life if I don't take my meds

Hi, this is chris y from tikigardens.com.
Earlier this week I sent an email to tangaroa, otto, tikigardener, kailuageoff
and several others in which I regrettably advised them that tikigardens.com would no longer be working with them in conjunction with raising a statue at the former site of Tiki Gardens. While tikicentral seems to be an idealist, escapist getaway where you can find kindred spirits with respect to great mug scores and a universal loathing for Jimmy Buffett, judging by the 70% default rate on pledges that mentality is apparently not conducive to undertaking a legitimate business endeavor. I don't know if that's being judgmental, but if you entered into a deal with someone and they only came up with 30% of the funding they had promised, you too would be seriously reticent about conducting any further business with them. As such we have respectfully declined to collaborate on further business dealings with groups or individuals who we had hoped would help see this project to fruition.
Pinellas County is expecting a presentation this thursday in which various groups have promised to donate a 12' tiki statue to be erected at the Tiki Gardens Beach Access. Wayne Coombs is expecting to be paid $5,000 for the construction of that 12' tiki statue once the county approves its construction. Incidental expenses will probably amount to anywhere from $2,000 to $3,500; current pledges total approximately $625. As (from the beginning) no one has stepped up and accepted responsibility, Floridata Capital Assets Group Inc, the company I work for that owns tikigardens.com and also holds the federal trademark for tiki gardens, has offered to pay for the construction of the statue in its entirety. Individual donors who have sent in funds would be given the option of being recognized for their contribution (most likely listed on the souvenir dedication/unveiling program), or having their pledge returned (no paypal pledges were ever deposited into the TGMF account, they are still in otto's paypal acct). Quite a few people made a committment to make this happen, but with dismal pledge collections and the project in jeopardy, nobody has come forward and said 'I made the committment, I can make this happen'. If anybody wants to do just that- including assuming the financial liability- we will defer and provide them with any and all collateral we've got to help make this project a reality. Until then, we have a presentation on Thursday that we intend to wow the county's socks off with no matter who ends up doing this project.
Thanks for your time. chris y

[ Edited by: chris y on 2003-02-15 17:43 ]

It truly is an idealist view to assume that one can post a message saying “I’m building a memorial! Who’s in?” and get $2000 in hard cash to pour in over a month. Good, solid, information on this project is so scattered around the various threads and messages that it’s tough to keep track. Perhaps some organization of the information, and an effort to contact the people who pledged, will help.

First Let’s see if we can’t get it all in one easy to read place to understand where we really are. If we can collect this information I’ll post it to the Memorial page that the banner links to.

1. Wayne wants $5000 to build the Tiki. Tiki Central members only pledged $1500. Even if we got 100% of the pledge money, there’s not enough to fund it. What is the plan to get the rest of the money?
2. What do contributors get if they pay up? Anything? A name on a plaque? Has that been decided? I don’t expect anything, but let’s face it, names on the memorial will motivate more people to pay up.
3. What’s the deadline for the cash? Is there a hard deadline? People always wait till the last minute.
4. What is the plan? What is the proposal? Is there a website we can see it? What will our money go to? Are there pictures? What was the final tiki chosen?

Secondly, let’s see if we can contact the pledgers:

1. Who has pledged but not paid? I want names. (this has been requested in the original thread before … who has the complete list of names? Is that you Chris, or Otto?)
2. Have they been contacted by email? By PM? Since I have access to all the member’s email addresses (public or otherwise) I volunteer to attempt to contact them, but I’ll need a list of member names who have paid. I’ll use that list to compare it to the pledge page. If you don’t have Tiki Central member names, that’s okay, we’ll contact everyone. I don’t want to contact anyone through until the above questions are answered. Our best bet to get them to pay is to have this information for them.

I know all this sounds like Extra work, but let’s face it: when you want people to pay, you just can’t yell “Pay!” and have the money come pouring in.

I can't step up and take the project on, but I can offer the website, the forum, and my contacts in order to help out.

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-02-15 23:47 ]

On 2003-02-14 20:06, fatuhiva wrote:
they were too distracted with pirating the Tiki Gardens CD and polishing their Jimmy Buffet records

Fatuhiva, don't know if you mean to, but you're implying you have Jimmy Buffet records!

huh?

Cy,
Thanks for elaborating on your earlier e-mail. I'm all for Otto sending you whatever is in the Paypal account to help cover at least part of the costs for this, and I totally understand if the credit doesn't go to Tiki Central (although Hanford was way supportive by putting up the banner and addding all of the background info. etc, so thanks Hanford for all of that.)

*On 2003-02-16 00:37, fatuhiva wrote:
*huh?

I don't know. I was just trying to be silly. Didn't work.

Chris y,
You wrote "judging by the 70% default rate on pledges that mentality is apparently not conducive to undertaking a legitimate business endeavor. I don't know if that's being judgmental, but if you entered into a deal with someone and they only came up with 30% of the funding they had promised, you too would be seriously reticent about conducting any further business with them. As such we have respectfully declined to collaborate on further business dealings with groups or individuals who we had hoped would help see this project to fruition."."Thank you", is a more appropriate response. At no time did anyone claim TC would pay for the memorial in total. This is not a "Business Dealing"; this is charity, you need to understand that. Hanford allowed TGM to seek charitable contributions on our board. Pledges were made, money was collected. $625.00 is better than $0.00. You stated, "The company I work for has offered to pay for the construction of the statue in its entirety." Ask the guy writing the $5000.00 check if he wants our $625.00. I think anyone could guess his answer.

Even if TC came up with the $1,500.00 pledged, you are still thousands short. You had hoped TC would "see this project to fruition". What does that mean? Are Otto and TC your only hope for contributions? On one hand you are funding a $5,000.00 Tiki and giving a presentation to the city council, on the other hand you ask for someone to step forward and "take responsibility". I don't understand, do you want out? I don't know who you are in regards to the memorial. I don't know the basic facts that Hanford outlined and I've read the threads. It is my understanding TC pledges are a $1,000.00 short, because of this, you don't want any of our money? If I needed $8,000.00 and a group offered $600.00 I would not cast dispersions and refuse to work with them. Your fundraising skills may need some polishing, tact, etiquette, patience and kindness. Despite your mastery of the English language, your well written argument and your righteous indignation, your comments read like a childish online Hissy fit.

You "regrettably" informed us you will no longer be working with TC. That's fine with me.
"Respectfully"
Al

<

[ Edited by: alnshely on 2003-02-17 11:54 ]

i think al may have some valid points. maybe i just wasn't paying attention (which is VERY likely) but i wasn't aware of any deadline. & when i read tangaroa's "received email from chris y" i was really surprised - as in there was no warning.

i don't know how evident the plans/process/timeline for the project was either. what i mean is, did people know that we'd suddenly get kicked out of the loop if we didn't provide an amount close to what we pledged?

so the project is continuing & the $20 that i donated is going to be used to attempt to raise a tiki at the tg site, right?

tiki chris

I agree. Al has some very valid points - one being that this whole project is not a business venture at all. It was a concept being executed through charitable funding. To imply that the $650 collected is not good enough is flat out arrogant!

I mean, lets look at this whole thing in simple terms: A few people wanted to have a statue erected to honor an old amusement park. They roused others for money and when they didn't get it, they blasted those others for not sending it! And made them feel guilty about it too!

Thanks Al for being the only one to stand up and voice what I'm sure others were thinking but too intimidated to say.

*** * * The Polynesian Popster * * ***

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2003-02-17 11:32 ]

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2003-02-17 11:41 ]

Right On Al,

Check out this logic, I offered to contribute nothing, but take no slam from whoever the a-holes were a few posts back that slammed people for not coming up with what they pledged.

Life has many uncertainties in it. Quite possibly the ones who pledged may have had other more urgent things happen in their life that put this urgent matter on the back-burner.

Jesus Christ, if this tiki is so god damn important to you, finance it. What type of loser couldn't even get a measly $8,000 loan?

I just knew this type of back-stabbing, petty-ass bickering would be the end result of this little gig, and that's why I steered clear.

Live Aloha (or I'll kill you!)

I totally agree with Al. Did anyone notice that the guy "we screwed over" only posted when money was involved. The Tiki Gardens LP, he was the one that squashed that. After hearing it, I wish he would've acted sooner. I remember when the memorial was an idea batted around by members, that too was squashed because He was already way ahead of us, organizing a memorial with the local government. Like Al said, he should be happy with what he got. Were TC members the only people donating for this? Bong's right on this one. Get a loan! DIY! Quit complaining. Get in a bread line...ask for toast.

I like Jimmy Buffett.

I never get any good Tiki mug finds.

Why am I here?

Goodbye cruel world...

midn

Thanks, guys. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I too did not get involved from the very beginning for basically the same reason Bong cited. Plus, I don't like to make promises I can't keep, and personally, I knew I hadn't an extra dime to contribute.

We certainly are in the midst of an extremely difficult time financially for many, many people in this country. Charities from coast to coast are losing money; as a retailer myself, I'm reminded every day of what Lewis Carroll's White Queen told Alice--you have to run as fast as you can just to stay in the same place, and if you want to GET anywhere you must run at least twice as fast as that! Hence, if you are asking folks for money, you'd best be polite, tactful and patient about it!!!

Frankly, even if I had it, I wouldn't give that guy a red cent now. Grrr.

Midnite, don't end it all before the Crawl!!!

chris y wrote me

This is chris y from tikigardens.com. I thought I would answer some of the points you raised in your post on tc.
Unfortunately, you couldn't be more wrong about this being a charity and not a business venture. To hand the county a check to be used to improve the park system at their discretion is one thing, to specify that the money must be used for a specific purpose that we designate in a specific park we designate is entirely another. The county doesn't look at this as charity; they look at it as we want something from them- a place to put our statue. As such, they require rigid documentation of all aspects of the project, from the engineering schematics that are sitting on my desk to the estimates and references from wayne to the account statement for the Tiki Gardens Memorial Fund included in the proposal showing sufficient funds to complete this project. That's the cold hard truth, and yes because my company has presented to entrenched bureauracies before and we know what to expect, I do get a little frustrated when there's almost a sense of entitlement because you have some cash or a statue to donate. If you want someone to say thank you, send a check you were going to use to help build a tiki statue to your local homeless shelter, that's charity, not this.
If you read my last post, I explicitly stated that anyone who has pledged (or would like to) would be welcome to continue to be a part of this. When I first contacted tikigardener about helping out with his pledge drive, there were over $2,000 in pledges; tikicentral had pledged that in a matter of days, I thought at the time there would be even more pledges forthcoming. Based upon those pledges we retained wayne to build a statue; despite my call to announce to tc in november that pledges would soon be coming due, tc members weren't alerted until several weeks ago-after Christmas, a strategic disaster- and now those pledges amount to $675 or so. I am honoring my committment; as for needing to polish my fundraising skills, if expecting people who pledged to honor those pledges is fundraising, then I guess I wasn't cut out to do that. And as for otto and tc being the only hope for contributions, let me remind you- this was tikigardener's idea to have tc fully fund this, not mine.
wayne is expecting to be paid five grand to build that statue; if you'd like to tell him you're assuming that responsibility, I'll bow out immediately and it can be a tc project exclusively. But until then spreading disinformation and casting aspersions because you are admittedly out of the loop is counterproductive. thanks for your time. cy

My response:
Ok. I'm out of the loop.

CY: "despite my call to announce to tc in November that pledges would soon be coming due, tc members weren't alerted until several weeks ago-after Christmas, a strategic disaster- and now those pledges amount to $675 or so. I am honoring my commitment;"

Why didn't you just post a deadline yourself? You know how to post.
What is your commitment? I have no idea.
If your commitment was to shepherd this project, why not more information in a timely manner?

CY: "let me remind you- this was tikigardener's idea to have tc fully fund this, not mine.
Unfortunately, you couldn't be more wrong about this being a charity and not a business venture. If you want someone to say thank you, send a check you were going to use to help build a tiki statue to your local homeless shelter, that's charity, not this."

You want us to contribute to your pet project; your hat is in your hand. This is a charity.
TC has 700 members. If Tiki Gardner said TC would foot the entire bill, he was not speaking for me. This is not business. If your expectations were that we would pay for this entirely, that was completely unclear to 99% of TC.

I did not cast aspersions. I did not spread misinformation. It was a hissy fit and still is. Hanford asked some questions. Answer them online. We deserve your answers. If you believe I've spread misinformation, inform us. If this is your project stand up and take responsibility.
Al

Ok, now I have some questions.
Tikigardner, did you sign us up to pay for this in it's entirety?

Chris y, do you expect anyone else to contribute with your pugnacious attitude?
Your call for some one to "take responsibility", is it a call to bail you out? Are you in over your head?

Let us know.
Al

[ Edited by: Alnshely on 2003-02-17 17:28 ]

[ Edited by: Alnshely on 2003-02-17 17:34 ]

Tiki-Bong wrote:

Jesus Christ, if this tiki is so god damn important to you, finance it. What type of loser couldn't even get a measly $8,000 loan?

I'll be honest, when it comes to Tiki Gardens stuff, I visit the websites, but I get totally bored off all of the insider bickering. We know that two or three sides have gotten their hands on various archival information and collectibles. What we never know is why Tiki Gardens material always comes with the prerequisite that the said parties will never agree on anything, and, I for one can always see a sense of proprietorship with all of the Tiki Gardens posters... it's as if they feel that they own the right to all Tiki Gardens information.

I just knew this type of back-stabbing, petty-ass bickering would be the end result of this little gig, and that's why I steered clear.

My feeling is, let's have these Tiki Gardens collectors get together and put out a book of all the official posters, etc., and also the insider pictures, contracts, etc. and let us have a concise view of a unique venture in our post-WW2 American culture. I'll pay $20, $50, even $75 for something like that (in color, please). To erect a Tiki god honoring an old themem park is not something I'm putting my money towards. Tiki is a great past-time... sometimes it goes too far.

Me think that the nasty and rude comments towards T/C'ers that didnt donate initially left many speechless and shocked. Thanks Al for standing up first. Let's see how did it go...sweet talk T/C to get some charitable contributions and financial backing...then when you dont get enough money coming in, then try to humilliate, shame, and punish us 'cause you cant get your tiki up...that's the Tiki Spirit? Sheez with that attitude and demeanor I'm glad not to have given a promise or a donation to you.

If I don't have anything nice to say....

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2003-02-18 11:03 ]

My take:

Chris is frustrated becuase he was hoping for more money, and it didn't come. That's why he posted what he did. Out of frustration. Did it rub some people the wrong way? Sure.

Those who want to help out: Contribute.
Those who don't: Don't.

Frankly, I'd like to see the memorial go up. This topic is definitely not helping that.

~Hanford

I agree that Chris's post was out of line, and I agree with Al that information was poor and the whole thing seemed very unorganized to those of us watching on TC, but none of that excuses those who pledged and didn't follow through.

I don't think anyone has a beef with folks who didn't pledge and I don't believe any undue pressure was applied on anyone to force a pledge out of them.

The fact is, if you pledged and you didn't follow through, that means your word is worthless.

Lot's of things happen, and putting a tiki in a public park ain't exactly setting the world on fire with good deeds, but quite a few people GAVE THEIR WORD to pledge, and some folks (Otto, the tiki gardens squabblers) spent their time trying to make this work BASED ON EVERYONE'S PLEDGE OF SUPPORT.

It's funny how people here can get so OUTRAGED at an eBay seller who leaves out a few facts and misleads stupid bidders who don't research the product they are bidding on, yet when people in our very own community fail to HONOR THEIR PROMISE, (in a sense, LIE), our outrage instead goes to the organizer, over what seemed to me to be a very obvious expression of frustration. Yes, it was rude, yes it was uncalled for, but does that excuse the people who have failed to follow through?

I don't know Chris, hell the whole Tiki Gardens website fighting thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but everyone who pledged, pledged KNOWING ALL THIS, and made that promise of THEIR OWN FREE WILL.

Is it really asking too much to expect people to STAND BY THEIR WORD?

-Mike

On 2003-02-17 18:53, hanford_lemoore wrote:
Those who want to help out: Contribute.
Those who don't: Don't.

It's as easy as that. Well said Hanford.

Trader Woody

I have made pledges to various causes and have always received a direct message (in these cases, a phone call or email) when it was time to pay. It's really frustrating to hear complaints that not enough money was contributed when efforts towards a reminder notice were not made, especially when it was not explicit during time of pledging when the money would be expected. Fundraisers have to take some responsibilty for the fact that pledgers weren't contacted directly or given notice of a "due-date", and as a result, they lost much of their funds. Is it too late to still try to contact people who have been completely and honestly out-of-the loop? Or is everyone getting their money back?

Not only is everyone not getting their money back, those who pledged and didn't follow through with be getting a ding on their credit rating!

I can think of better things to do with $6,000. Or even $700.

1. Let's commission a Tiki Gardens Memorial mug. That way we can all have something to enjoy.

2. Let's have an art film made about the Tiki Crawl. I'm sure somebody knows somebody on this forum who could do an amazing job for very few clams.

3. Let's commission one of the great carvers on this forum to design Peace Tikis and send them to all the war mongering world leaders. The tikis could have genetalia that fit together perfectly. We'll send out a press release with pictures before we ship off the tikis to capitals around the globe.

On 2003-02-18 14:51, kahukini wrote:
3) Let's commission one of the great carvers on this forum to design Peace Tikis and send them to all the war mongering world leaders. The tikis could have genetalia that fit together perfectly. We'll send out a press release with pictures before we ship off the tikis to capitals around the globe.

Why that is just crackpot enough to work!

I'll definitely shift my TG donation to this project!

-Mike

hmmmm. did no one see these simple questions.....

1.Wayne wants $5000 to build the Tiki. Tiki Central members only pledged $1500. Even if we got 100% of the pledge money, there’s not enough to fund it. What is the plan to get the rest of the money?
2.What do contributors get if they pay up? Anything? A name on a plaque? Has that been decided? I don’t expect anything, but let’s face it, names on the memorial will motivate more people to pay up.
3.What’s the deadline for the cash? Is there a hard deadline? People always wait till the last minute.
4.What is the plan? What is the proposal? Is there a website we can see it? What will our money go to? Are there pictures? What was the final tiki chosen?

It’s not hard to write a check for $20... but to put it in an envelope and lick it sealed and take it to the post office or letter box down the street... Hell that may take 6 months if your a scatter brain like me..........

it has been asked....
“Have (pledgers) been contacted by email? By PM? ....Our best bet to get them to pay is to have (said) information (given to) them.“

I might add that it will take several reminders to get the pledges in. That is if people have not lost total faith in this thing already.

An "amusement park"?!?

oh brother that takes the cake.

PS somebody take Kahukini's waterbong away- I believe he's had enough

On 2003-02-18 23:19, crazy al wrote:
hmmmm. did no one see these simple questions.....

I agree with Al. It would be nice to get some answers from an official source, laying out what the plan is moving forward, and if this thing is dead then what is going to happen to the money that has already been collected.

After all that has gone on, perhaps the key players could get together, discuss, and post a plan that has been agreed upon by all involved.

Anyone? Otto? Tiki Gardener? Cy?

-Mike

As a big cheerleader for this project, I feel like I need to explain my motives since some people seem to be so negative about how it has progressed (or not progressed), or even the fact that we attempted to do this in the first place.

1. I live in Florida and a lot of our tiki culture has disappeared or is disappearing. I'm sure that's happening lots of other places and that's a damn shame. For me, this project was about calling some attention to our mid-century polynesian pop heritage in hopes of preserving more of what is left. Once this project was completed, I would have been happy to support another project in California, or Seattle or Atlanta or some other place. You see, I'm just not one to sit around bitching about things going wrong without trying to do something about it.

2. TikiGardner's site was one of the first I came across when I got interested in tiki. He built that site out of his love for the place, and didn't charge anyone a dime to get educated and broaden their appreciation for tiki culture. To me that attitude was a kind of "Aloha spirit" that I sensed among many of the original members of the Tiki Central Yahoo site. Later , I confirmed that impression by meeting some very nice people from this site in my travels. Let's not forget that most of the time we have a great comunity here. That's the reason I felt we could get enough support for a project like this. Actually, I feel good that we raised $650 and would still like to see the money go to aiding the effort, even it it can't begin to pay for the whole thing.

3. I have to admit I wasn't real happy when Chris came forward with his detailed plans on how the memorial project should be handled because it had the appearance of elbowing TikiGardner out of the way. I quickly realized, however, there was merit in what he was saying about the need to get organized and approach the authorities in a more professional manner. TikiGardner saw this too, and said so. Also, I took TikiGardener's comments at face value that he wanted the project to move ahead even if he couldn't be real involved. To blame TikiGardner for not being more supportive when he clearly communicated his wish to remain on the margins is unfair.
   Likewise, to blame Cy for being disorganized and not communicating properly is unfair.
   That's because he has been the most (only?) organized person in this whole endeavor, and because the whole function of a bulletin board is communication. If anyone had questions, all they had to do was ask publically or send an e-mail. Also, Hanford posted a ton of information on what was going on and why. If we didn't or couldn't communicate everything to everyone's satisfaction, oh well...

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-02-19 09:45 ]

On 2003-02-19 09:42, Kailuageoff wrote:
3) I have to admit I wasn't real happy when Chris came forward with his detailed plans on how the memorial project should be handled because it had the appearance of elbowing TikiGardner out of the way. I quickly realized, however, there was merit in what he was saying about the need to get organized and approach the authorities in a more professional manner. TikiGardner saw this too, and said so. Also, I took TikiGardener's comments at face value that he wanted the project to move ahead even if he couldn't be real involved. To blame TikiGardner for not being more supportive when he clearly communicated his wish to remain on the margins is unfair.
Likewise, to blame Cy for being disorganized and not communicating properly is unfair.
That's because he has been the most (only?) organized person in this whole endeavor, and because the whole function of a bulletin board is communication. If anyone had questions, all they had to do was ask publically or send an e-mail. Also, Hanford posted a ton of information on what was going on and why. If we didn't or couldn't communicate everything to everyone's satisfaction, oh well...
[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-02-19 09:45 ]

Precisely!

For the 50+ folks who pledged and have not actually contributed or stated why they do not want to contribute I would like to say it is not my responsibility to chase them down and make a list
It is their responsibility to check back in on this subject and follow it and honor their pledges accordingly

To state that each pledger should be contacted direclty [Manic Cat] is not very realistic. That is what this bulletin board is for - mass communication and participation.
Would YOU like to send out one hundred individual email tonight?

Like Geoff, I signed on as a cheerleader for the TG Memorial, not a full-time employee/volunteer. I would expect others to get involved and do their part so that I do not have to spend several hours in order to get a few hundred dollars worth of donations.
[For the record, I am currently working on additions to the SF Tiki Bar Crawl and the Tiki Oasis. I have very little time to chase down pledgers who did not follow up on their own comittments]

Also, When I first started to make a list of contributors there was all sorts of hullabaloo about names and money figures being publicly displayed that I had to stop that process. therefore there will not be a list of pledgers posted on Tiki Central. The list of pledgers will be printed in a commemorative program that will be passed out at the unvieling should the project go through [more on this later]

I expect cy or myself to post the official direction of the project later today

thank you

I do have a question re: the project- is the wooden Lono tiki the actual final tiki, or is it going to be concrete and that is the model?

We all love to help out but the responsibility of raising funds lies with the “official Treasurer” of this ‘Business’ venture!

i think it is clear this person does not exist....

When I pledge to public TV or Radio, I get a letter saying.... time to pay up dude!

this ain’t Tiki’Rocket Science here.

of course this is a pain in the ass but every endeavor is a pain in the ass. Posting on TC is fine but it will not collect funds I believe.

[ Edited by: crazy al on 2003-02-19 13:22 ]

The Lono tiki that was in the picture was a small model. Wayne drew up a proposal at Chris' request that is to be part of tomorrow's presentation to the city. It is to be cast from concrete and is to be quite tall. Thanks for asking.

Otto--thank you for hearing my voice.
"To state that each pledger should be contacted direclty [Manic Cat] is not very
realistic. That is what this bulletin board is for - mass communication and
participation. Would YOU like to send out one hundred individual email tonight? "

I would like to participate. Am I being nominated to send mass emails? If so, then I would really like to help.
My suggestion is meant as an effort to collect more money and not to negate the hardwork of the volunteers. There is a minimal response to the pledge. In addition to people just being rude and lazy, this is my observation to possibly why the response was so poor. If more money is needed, then I think more publicity/ advertisement/ (but gosh, how could anyone miss the banner on top of this page??) direct messages. Yes, this is more work, like I've said before. Thus, in addition to the check I've sent, I want to donate my time and enthusiatism.

Or I'm just dumb. Maybe people are just rude and lazy no matter who many times you contact them. If you are one of these people and are reading this, please think what horrible karma you will have for promising money and never paying up.

MC

[ Edited by: manic cat on 2003-02-19 14:18 ]

ManicCat,
Thanks for volunteering, although it might be a bit late. The e-mail thing may not be so important now, since even occassional visitors are probably well aware that the pledges were called in, and Cy has moved on with the funding thing.
I do want to say your attitude is an example of what keeps this site a good place. I remember that you helped get some tiki gatherings together in New York when Waikiki Wally's first opened -- which just proves your heart and head are in the right places for speading good tiki mana.
Hopefully, Cy will post an update on how things turn out with the city following his presentation tomorrow. Or he'll share the results with one of us, so we can pass it on.

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-02-19 14:52 ]

[ Edited by: kailuageoff on 2003-02-19 17:09 ]

Well it's all looking a lot more positive now! I think the communication part was sadly lacking at times, which only leads to confusion.

Certainly when this all began, it seemed pretty simple. We at Tiki Central through TikiGardener, helped by Otto's efforts were going to put up a statue on the site of Tiki Gardens. Which of the 2 statue choices would have been decided by a vote. A few months later, and the original idea has been distorted so much that Tiki Centralites are understably confused as to what's being erected, by who, and even whether our contributions are relevant, so it's little wonder that some are a little reticent in giving their $20 or more....

Personally, I've just always thought it was a great idea. The inevitable confusion whenever anything to do with Tiki Gardens arose, but quickly loses it's relevance once we know something is going to be built. And most of the money is coming from elsewhere? It can only increase the size of the Tiki!

I'd still liked to have voted on which one to put up, though!

Trader Woody

Personally, I was/am waiting to hear what the power-that-be in Pinellas County government have to say before sending in money. IMHO, that should have been the sequence of events from the get-go as no approval equals no tiki. If Cy reports that it's a go, a check from me will be in the mail the next day. We should know in 24 hours. Tick, tock, tick, tock ...

As for the choice of the actual tiki to be carved, my understanding is that was more or less decided upon by the carver, who rejected the notion of Kahono (I believe) as it was a bastardization in his view and not a "true" tiki. He basically said it's gonna be Lono, the one used in the TG logo and advertisements, which is fine. The small prototype does look pretty damn cool.

Again IMHO, the communication was always there, just scattered throughout the various threads. If the project ever does get rolling, a regularly updated website with the whole project detailed, showing progress, would seem to be pretty much essential. As I live near the site and have web authoring skillz, I'll gladly take that on.

tweedtone wrote:
my understanding is that was more or less decided upon by the carver, who rejected the notion of Kahono (I believe) as it was a bastardization in his view and not a "true" tiki.

Mmmm, I mentioned at the time that this was a ludicrous statement. Both Kahona & Lono are 'bastardizations' - you'd be very hard pressed to get any depiction of a Tiki that isn't. I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if my choice (Kahona) isn't built, but the decision resting on the (paid) artist's whim never struck me as being right.

Trader Woody

I think the deal with Lono vs. Kahona kind of comes down to this: Lono was the logo of Tiki Gardens and as such is its most well recognized symbol in the community of Indian Rocks and the rest of Florida. Using Lono in the proposal probably increases the odds of project approval, although this is just my opinion.
You know, I also have to ask this question of some of you -- what the hell is the big deal of spending $20 on the vague chance something good might happen? I sure as hell spend more than that at my local watering hole and don't think a thing about it. I spend more than that on any given week on ebay. Sometimes I give a dollar to a bum even though he just might go buy a beer or a pack of cigarettes. Granted some of you may not have $20 to your name, but I kind of doubt that goes for most of you rum drinking, mug collecting, tiki carving crazies. Geez.

The "edit" function is such a nice option. It is helpful for the rare instance when one posts something they decide, after calm reflection and contemplation, was in err or somehow miscommunicated their true message.

Yes, that "edit" function is a real plus, it makes up for many "off the cuff" or "heat of the moment" type statements that really do more harm than good. Thanks to Holden and Mig for the option. It is appreciated, along with all the other work they do here.

Read a book by Dale Carnegie once, it was very helpful.

midnite