So, I can classify this as "un-tiki" then? (Is that Derek's artwork???)

Looks like a knockoff! If it is Derek's work,that would be hilarious! Kind of an irony thang,but if it isn't,then that hack of an artist should find his own style-and at least wash down that tie-dye treatment so it's not so bright!
Just discovered this thread and have to say-the stuff you guys have found is very funny!
All this talk about tiki and untiki (especially on the artist's side) is a strange haze.It really Boils down to whether it brings you a smile or not-that's what gets people to buy a product be it cheesey or not (except the first picture of the tiki trannie-that is freakin wrong!)Polynesian Pop DID with Oceanic art what a lot of the TC artists DO today-we research-be it off an old carving or an old menu-and we elaborate on it.Because we weren't raised in the 40's-50's,our graphic/visual reference is different.It's piled high with Disney/Warner Bros/Hanna Barbera/Marvel comics/ etc.This whole tiki-untiki thing is ridiculous.Look at Witco,from a classic tribal standpoint,these are crude abstractions/stereotypes,but to American post war tiki vibe-they're classics!Flounder recognized that and put a Witco next to a more authentic tiki on his new painting(s).
The reason you don't hear much from us artists is we be busy trying to draw and paint,plus the Creating Tiki/Other Crafts section is where we like to hang out! Most of the artists there are just sharing their main love of art which happens to intersect their love of tiki.But, just as you all have regular lives and regular loves,you shouldn't chastise the artists for having other outside subject matter. I mean, how rad are Sam Gambino's pieces? Without TC, a lot of folks wouldn't be able to enjoy or find his work.There's such a crossover with Rockabilly/Surf/Kustom Kulture/Tattoo that Tiki shows up in all of it.We may want to be purists about it-but think about Witco,and how new and alien it was to most folks-besides Elvis of course. All these new and crazy Tiki things popping up are for REGULAR people,the sheep who see something they like with no care as to whether or not it's an authentic Ku or Lono-they just like it! Sorry,this post got me blabbing,at least
I'm not alone! Gotta go paint! I've been on line too long! You guys crack me up! Hope this rant is understandable!
Mahaloz!

Arrrrgh! OK, one last time:
THIS IS NOT A THREAD AGAINST THE NEW TIKI ART MOVEMENT! (which to me is the most amazing explosion of creativity, something I would have never imagined, and basically all good.)

WE LOVE TIKI, OLD AND NEW, BECAUSE IT IS UN-AUTHENTIC! Un-authenticity is the very DEFINITION of Tiki! Anything beyond that is based on the ability to DIFFERENTIATE, to be able to tell where the un-authenticity went too far. (Which, I KNOW, is quite subjective.)

But just because some people here FELT personally insulted, then GOT personally insulted, and others chimed in who did not have a CLUE what this community is about, I will not let this thread stand as an attack on the ARTISTS out there that are inspired by vintage Tiki and Polynesian POP CULTURE, (which was inspired by authentic Polynesian culture.)

I believe Tangaroa said it very well earlier:

"TIKI implies something done well, as well as paying homage to classic Polynesian Pop.
UN-TIKI implies something badly done, with little or no regard to Poly Pop."

Now again, "well done" and "badly done" is very subjective (as we witnessed), but please allow me to explain more why I felt compelled to start this thread:

Today, the term and likeness of the Tiki has spread to a degree where often it has become a self-perpetuating image, with NO connection EITHER to vintage Polynesian Pop OR authentic Polynesian art. This thread is merely saying that not just ANY FACE WITH A TOOTHY GRIN AND BRIGHT ZIG ZAG LINES ON IT deserves to be called a Tiki.

To Tiki-philes it is painful to see the treasure trove of VINTAGE Polynesian Pop AND the amazing horn of plenty of AUTHENTIC Polynesian culture completely ignored or twisted to a degree where it has nothing to do with these sources.

I realize that this differentiation might seem ridiculously esoteric, nit-picky, and
subjective, and is hard to grasp for outsiders, but this is what this forum is all about.

And it is also about supporting any and all individual efforts to keep POLYNESIAN POP culture alive and rejuvenated with new ideas and interpretations, and totally allows any and all members to execute their personal taste and preferences. This is just a guide, not a rule book.

And about the above T-shirt:
It is all really simple! The shirt is Un-Tiki, and the image (IF IT IS NOT A KNOCK-OFF) is Tiki, because Derek Yaniger is a respected Tiki artist who has contributed his work (for free) to many well regarded Tiki events (BECAUSE of his talent to re-create the mid-century cartoon style of vintage Poly Pop), and in my opinion he cannot be faulted for trying to make a living, just as some new Tiki Bars might have to play the "wrong" music sometimes to keep the locals at bar.
Unfortunately, the shirt here wins and makes the whole thing rather Tiki-tacky. But actually, it would also make for a really cool insider joke, something that Bamboo Ben (the ol' punk!) would wear at the Hukilau, to offend us puritsts! :)

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2006-08-16 00:03 ]

Thanks Big Bro!
Agree with you completely,just came in a lil' late...
Keeping it alive,spreading the faith,that's what it boils down to...
So what's the deal? I'm dying to know if Derek did that.Something about it is off...They use the right looking fonts but there's just a lil' something different about it.Could it be the Hula girl?Or maybe the pallette because Derek is a master colorist. Has anybody asked him,I mean, if someone's knocking that hardworking fellow off he should at least know! And i got a funny feelin about it.
Hey Soccertiki,are you wearing that to Catalina for the Ugliest Hawaiian Shirt contest?

I think you're right, llt, it looks like some T-shirt vendor took the 2003 Tiki Oasis postcard and abused it for his own purposes. I doubt Derek could get J. Buffet for it though, he is a very smart multi millionaire business man who pays his employees badly and is mainly interested in keeping his target consumer group entertained with new stuff, and Tiki just fit the bill nicely (...well, and he actually, admittedly, might LIKE Tiki. Note: Not everybody who likes Tiki IS Tiki.)

An excellent example, that wood sign above is on the peak of the tide this thread is stemming against, for if we don't speak up, this (not badly done) "Ku" Tiki just might be referred to as "Parrothead" in the future! :)

Damn! I'm so confused, someone should start another un~Tiki thread to filter all of this shit out. :D

On the brighter side;
BOT ROCKS!

that shirt is a knock off.. very old news. It actually has the old munktiki website graphics on the back too. Totally unathorized. I believe that the derek yaniger art is from a previous tiki oasis. I already confronted someone who was selling one of these shirts on ebay a long time ago.

-stuckie

On 2006-08-16 00:01, bigbrotiki wrote:
Arrrrgh! OK, one last time:
THIS IS NOT A THREAD AGAINST THE NEW TIKI ART MOVEMENT! (which to me is the most amazing explosion of creativity, something I would have never imagined, and basically all good.)

WE LOVE TIKI, OLD AND NEW, BECAUSE IT IS UN-AUTHENTIC! Un-authenticity is the very DEFINITION of Tiki! Anything beyond that is based on the ability to DIFFERENTIATE, to be able to tell where the un-authenticity went too far. (Which, I KNOW, is quite subjective.)

But just because some people here FELT personally insulted, then GOT personally insulted, and others chimed in who did not have a CLUE what this community is about, I will not let this thread stand as an attack on the ARTISTS out there that are inspired by vintage Tiki and Polynesian POP CULTURE, (which was inspired by authentic Polynesian culture.)

I believe Tangaroa said it very well earlier:

"TIKI implies something done well, as well as paying homage to classic Polynesian Pop.
UN-TIKI implies something badly done, with little or no regard to Poly Pop."

Now again, "well done" and "badly done" is very subjective (as we witnessed), but please allow me to explain more why I felt compelled to start this thread:

Today, the term and likeness of the Tiki has spread to a degree where often it has become a self-perpetuating image, with NO connection EITHER to vintage Polynesian Pop OR authentic Polynesian art. This thread is merely saying that not just ANY FACE WITH A TOOTHY GRIN AND BRIGHT ZIG ZAG LINES ON IT deserves to be called a Tiki.

To Tiki-philes it is painful to see the treasure trove of VINTAGE Polynesian Pop AND the amazing horn of plenty of AUTHENTIC Polynesian culture completely ignored or twisted to a degree where it has nothing to do with these sources.

I realize that this differentiation might seem ridiculously esoteric, nit-picky, and
subjective, and is hard to grasp for outsiders, but this is what this forum is all about.

And it is also about supporting any and all individual efforts to keep POLYNESIAN POP culture alive and rejuvenated with new ideas and interpretations, and totally allows any and all members to execute their personal taste and preferences. This is just a guide, not a rule book.

And about the above T-shirt:
It is all really simple! The shirt is Un-Tiki, and the image (IF IT IS NOT A KNOCK-OFF) is Tiki, because Derek Yaniger is a respected Tiki artist who has contributed his work (for free) to many well regarded Tiki events (BECAUSE of his talent to re-create the mid-century cartoon style of vintage Poly Pop), and in my opinion he cannot be faulted for trying to make a living, just as some new Tiki Bars might have to play the "wrong" music sometimes to keep the locals at bar.
Unfortunately, the shirt here wins and makes the whole thing rather Tiki-tacky. But actually, it would also make for a really cool insider joke, something that Bamboo Ben (the ol' punk!) would wear at the Hukilau, to offend us puritsts! :)

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2006-08-16 00:03 ]

Dang Bro! You spoiled my gig!!

Back to the lab.........hut......drawing board, etc, etc. etc..

On 2006-08-16 01:50, bigbrotiki wrote:
I think you're right, llt, it looks like some T-shirt vendor took the 2003 Tiki Oasis postcard and abused it for his own purposes. I doubt Derek could get J. Buffet for it though, he is a very smart multi millionaire business man who pays his employees badly and is mainly interested in keeping his target consumer group entertained with new stuff, and Tiki just fit the bill nicely (...well, and he actually, admittedly, might LIKE Tiki. Note: Not everybody who likes Tiki IS Tiki.)

An excellent example, that wood sign above is on the peak of the tide this thread is stemming against, for if we don't speak up, this (not badly done) "Ku" Tiki just might be referred to as "Parrothead" in the future! :)

I'd just like to point out JB's target audience doesn't want "new stuff," they want the same hit (yes, singular) and other favorites played over & over while they do the same dance moves ("Fins UP!") and see the same people for margaritas in the parking lot. That's why he's expanded into restaurants, packaged food, Tequila, mystery writing, publishing, appliances, furniture, record production (he's released records from Boz Scaggs, Dan Fogelberg & Chris Issac among others), shoes, etc., etc. Music isn't a creative outlet new ideas for him any more. He enjoy's performing, but no one wants him to do anything new.

This thread's going to go on longer than the "Photo Association" thread. Only the "Photo Association" thread still has something new to say.

I agree that Tangaroa said it best:
"TIKI implies something done well, as well as paying homage to classic Polynesian Pop.
UN-TIKI implies something badly done, with little or no regard to Poly Pop."

Maybe it's the name of this Forum needs changing, Tiki was something that was welcome to new forms of interpretation.

TIKI implies something done well, as well as paying homage to classic Polynesian Pop.
UN-TIKI implies something badly done, with little or no regard to Poly Pop."[/i]

I honestly feel maybe Poly pop maybe has no right to the name Tiki in the first place as most of its stuff was badly done in respect to true Polynesien style.
Ok some of the mass market items out there are bad, but without more people to buy them, the companies involved will not spend more money on design and production and we will stuck with more crap, but more interest in the right areas might make a difference and we find quality rising as the market expands.

On 2006-08-16 09:31, MachTiki wrote:
I agree that Tangaroa said it best:
"TIKI implies something done well, as well as paying homage to classic Polynesian Pop.
UN-TIKI implies something badly done, with little or no regard to Poly Pop."

Agreed. And here's a non-tiki example to illustrate the point.

the example that comes to mind is when I was a kid and I was all excited when I got a Darth Vader costume for Halloween. Imagine my disappointment when I opened the box to find not blinking buttons on the chest plate, not even a picture of the buttons on the chest, but a cartoon Darth Vader waving "Hi!" as if Lord Vader was your buddy.

Gee, that's authentic. I don't have a picture of that costume, but here's the same idea with Mickey Mouse:

How obvious does the artwork have to be to get the point across? It even has Mickey's name plastered on the front incase you couldn't figure out who the person is dress up to be. Similarly, Does every tiki bar have to contain a sign that reads TIKI BAR just incase you didn't know where you were?

maybe it's me, but I prefer Mickey to look like this:

-Z

Well after spending an hour writing a reply to this thread to have the server eat it, I'll just say I understand, and I agree with Sven.

"Doesn't quite measure up, it's an off white white"

Here's something that Eli told me when I was a wee youngster ( early 70's) sitting in a giant clam shell in the best playground in the world, the Island Trade Store that was in Mid Way City (after their store at Disneyland).

" There Are No Rules in Tiki".

I never forgot that talk we had.

On 2006-08-16 20:00, RevBambooBen wrote:
" There Are No Rules in Tiki".

Right on Ben !!!

On 2006-08-08 11:02, SoccerTiki wrote:

On 2006-08-08 10:18, tikigreg wrote:
Not tiki!

If you found this staute with no base or paint laying on the ground...on Arorango Beach in Rarotonga.....would you call it "tiki"???

NO! I would immediately recognize it as BaliPop even if it was being sold (as they may well be) in a curio shop on Bora Bora :P

On 2006-08-08 11:42, bigbrotiki wrote:
Though expertly carved in mostly beautiful tropical wood, to me these "Tikis" often are "off" somehow, because they are not based on the "primitive" art books that inspired American mid-century carvers. The cultural background of the Asian craftsman unconsciously creeps into their work, showing itself in too softly flowing lines instead of blocky simplicity, or in the wrong relation between the head size and the body. I have seen these in many Asian import stores in Hawaii, and unfortunately in new Trader Vic franchises also, and most of the time I can pick them out as Poly-asian. But that's just because of who I am, ya know, I wrote...oops, akh, darn...must not...grggllll

Unless of course you gift them a copy of your BOT as I did :wink: I think that worked....at least I hoped it worked.....didn't it work? :o

Some excellent posts with great 'on topic' points (Kudos to Swanky, BK & Sven) and some hilarious posts (ESPECIALLY from Grog, I laugh har so I crry).

Hard for me not to chime in even if this all but exhausted. Having moved to Key West in '77 at the tender (yeah right!) age of 15 I certainly can understand the disdain that some have for the bastardization of the Tiki "cultural" genre even if it was and is a bastard unto itself. KW was a VERY different place then and and it still isn't half of what folks conjure up in their (Marg'vil hazed, JB influenced) minds before they get here either! It seems there is more KW style neon color painted objects outside of KW than there are here (and hence the reason I didn't even know what some poster was talking about when THAT style was first brought to my attention here on TC). You see Key West was always in my mind that white wash and Navy (stolen from the base when it was still open) gray that it was in the 70's....but I degress......:lol:

Basically as far as I can see this all comes down to a debate about two things: style/genre and class/quality (and maybe integrity). It maybe only two things, but they are VERY important things! Now I understand Bamboo Ben's, rodeotiki's and others desire of artistic freedom, "no rules", accept all, mentality. And maybe that is part of that 60's-70's youthful, baby boomers, left coast mentality that may have had it's merit at one time.....BUT sorry as I approach 45 rapidly I no longer can agree! Classic STYLE and stylish CLASS have for far too long been degraded and devalued in our 'do as you -and dress as you- please' American postmodern society, and though this lack of value has far from rotted through the fabric of all the cultures/societies of this planet, it certainly has bled a lot out of it! :x

So to keep this short and to give an example; Tiki is a (IRONED!) Hawaiian made, quality Aloha shirt, that you picked out of hundreds and maybe even is a well loved vintage. Untiki is a wrinkled, flowery poly-rayon blend Thai made piece of crap ($9.99) from Walgreens (you know the guys that leveled the Kahiki and gutted our beautiful Strand Theater) that you grabbed while buying a pack of smokes ($4.99) that you can dribble your syrupy, slurpy machine made Rum Runner (that you bought at Fat Tuesdays for $8.75) on as you waddle down to sunset to see the trained cats jump through hoops of fire. (priceless) :P

[ Edited by: Rattiki 2006-08-17 10:05 ]

I was at the Mall of America in Minneapolis yesterday and saw this in a restaurant called Kokomo's Island Cafe. The decor was a hideous mish-mash of cartoony tikis like the one pictured above, and Parrothead Moderne. The colors were so bright, I thought I'd go blind. My 12-year old daughter proclaimed the joint "tacky" and refused to even look in the door.

Holy sh*t!! Mr. BaliHai, that is hilarious! That is exactly the kind of stuff GROG was expecting to see when GROG first saw this thread posted.

Glad you enjoyed GROG's posts Rattiki. :)

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-17 13:14 ]

On 2006-08-16 20:00, RevBambooBen wrote:
" There Are No Rules in Tiki".

You have abvously never been in the foyer at Hala Kahiki in Illinois.
:)

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:51 ]

On 2006-08-17 06:45, Rattiki wrote:
Some excellent posts with great 'on topic' points (Kudos to Swanky, BK & Sven) and some hilarious posts (ESPECIALLY from Grog, I laugh har so I crry).

Hard for me not to chime in even if this all but exhausted. Having moved to Key West in '77 at the tender (yeah right!) age of 15 I certainly can understand the disdain that some have for the bastardization of the Tiki "cultural" genre even if it was and is a bastard unto itself. KW was a VERY different place then and and it still isn't half of what folks conjure up in their (Marg'vil hazed, JB influenced) minds before they get here either! It seems there is more KW style neon color painted objects outside of KW than there are here (and hence the reason I didn't even know what some poster was talking about when THAT style was first brought to my attention here on TC). You see Key West was always in my mind that white wash and Navy (stolen from the base when it was still open) gray that it was in the 70's....but I degress......:lol:

Basically as far as I can see this all comes down to a debate about two things: style/genre and class/quality (and maybe integrity). It maybe only two things, but they are VERY important things! Now I understand Bamboo Ben's, rodeotiki's and others desire of artistic freedom, "no rules", accept all, mentality. And maybe that is part of that 60's-70's youthful, baby boomers, left coast mentality that may have had it's merit at one time.....BUT sorry as I approach 45 rapidly I no longer can agree! Classic STYLE and stylish CLASS have for far too long been degraded and devalued in our 'do as you -and dress as you- please' American postmodern society, and though this lack of value has far from rotted through the fabric of all the cultures/societies of this planet, it certainly has bled a lot out of it! :x

So to keep this short and to give an example; Tiki is a (IRONED!) Hawaiian made, quality Aloha shirt, that you picked out of hundreds and maybe even is a well loved vintage. Untiki is a wrinkled, flowery poly-rayon blend Thai made piece of crap ($9.99) from Walgreens (you know the guys that leveled the Kahiki and gutted our beautiful Strand Theater) that you grabbed while buying a pack of smokes ($4.99) that you can dribble your syrupy, slurpy machine made Rum Runner (that you bought at Fat Tuesdays for $8.75) on as you waddle down to sunset to see the trained cats jump through hoops of fire. (priceless) :P

[ Edited by: Rattiki 2006-08-17 10:05 ]

:lol: !!!

Here's one?... YOU make the call!

Flip-flOp-fLipPp...

She looks like the girl gremlin in Gremlins 2.

Q: Tiki?

Or not Tiki?

?

PS: There is a correct answer... :)

Rattiki quote;

Basically as far as I can see this all comes down to a debate about two things: style/genre and class/quality (and maybe integrity). It maybe only two things, but they are VERY important things! Now I understand Bamboo Ben's, rodeotiki's and others desire of artistic freedom, "no rules", accept all, mentality. And maybe that is part of that 60's-70's youthful, baby boomers, left coast mentality that may have had it's merit at one time.....BUT sorry as I approach 45 rapidly I no longer can agree! Classic STYLE and stylish CLASS have for far too long been degraded and devalued in our 'do as you -and dress as you- please' American postmodern society, and though this lack of value has far from rotted through the fabric of all the cultures/societies of this planet, it certainly has bled a lot out of it!

Very well said.

https://tikicentral.com/uploads/4829/45400585.jpg

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - changed image link at image owner's request. - 2006-10-28 14:38 ]

I get a friends request on MySpace and so I looked at the guy's profile to see if he was someone I knew or not and came across this atrocity:

Yes, that's right. This tiki dude has tattooed the freakin' Party City "tiki" thing on his arm! With a blonde hula dancer (which might be somewhat forgivable, maybe.) I am so sad! That awful thing has been perpetrated on this dude for life! Plus I think her tits are fake...

Swank Blather- Talkin' atcha

[ Edited by: Swanky 2006-12-11 08:24 ]

:lol:

Yes, that's right. This tiki dude has tattooed the freakin' Party City "tiki" thing on his arm!

That's freakin' hilarious from both a tiki perspective and a tattoo perspective. Last place I got inked I brought in a print of the moai that I wanted but the guy still looked in a couple books that had tiki and moai photos for confirmation. I'd love to know what the genesis of that was, there's some funny story behind it no doubt.

That being said, after having lurked these boards for well over a year, I'm still unclear as to what's wrong with the Party City tiki that isn't also wrong with Disney's Enchanted Tiki Hut tikis.

[i]On 2006-12-11 13:51, Rev. Griz wrote:[/

That being said, after having lurked these boards for well over a year, I'm still unclear as to what's wrong with the Party City tiki that isn't also wrong with Disney's Enchanted Tiki Hut tikis.

be careful pointing out hipocracy in here, they will eat you alive.

On 2006-12-11 14:01, TIKI DAVID wrote:

[i]On 2006-12-11 13:51, Rev. Griz wrote:[/

That being said, after having lurked these boards for well over a year, I'm still unclear as to what's wrong with the Party City tiki that isn't also wrong with Disney's Enchanted Tiki Hut tikis.

be careful pointing out hipocracy in here, they will eat you alive.

Being a Jimmy Buffett fan as well, I'm quite aware of the groundswell of ill feelings that can appear ocasionally in response to certain types of non-conforming behavior, however, I'm not trying to point out hypocrisy, because I don't see how there can be any in matters of taste, just to learn. Those who are inclined to flame will flame no matter what, and the rest will just raise a glass to diversity :)

On 2006-12-11 13:51, Rev. Griz wrote:
I'm still unclear as to what's wrong with the Party City tiki that isn't also wrong with Disney's Enchanted Tiki Hut tikis.

Not everyone herer thinks that Disney is the be-all and end-all.

As a matter of fact there are some people here who DO think that the modern-day Disney Tikis are no better than the Party City Tiki.

On 2006-12-11 13:51, Rev. Griz wrote:
I'm still unclear as to what's wrong with the Party City tiki that isn't also wrong with Disney's Enchanted Tiki Hut tikis.

A.) Tikis should not be painted like clowns (see below)

B.) Assuming a tattoo is intended as a mark of distinction and uniqueness, it is indeed ironic to end up with the most generic and commercial design out there (among the infinity of choices that exist in authentic, and in pop Polynesian culture).

Regarding the Disney Tikis: Because Marc Davis was a collector of Papua New Guinea art, most of the Enchanted Tiki room Tikis are styled and colored after originals from that culture group. However, there is a fine line between the earthen colors that the PNG natives used and the brightly "fiesta"-style painted Tikis that turned up in the 1980s in various places (like the 80s Chinese Restaurant Orchids of Hawaii Tikis). Often owners of Tiki establishments themselves "updated" their Tikis to make them look less "dark" and brooding (which is the correct look for primitive art in my opinion), a clear sign of the devolution of Tiki style.

Terrence Barrow, accomplished author and authority on Maori art, early on in this century lamented the insensitivity of painting Maori meeting houses with red colors that were too bright, because, as he correctly observed, "harsh colors detract from the SCULPTURAL quality of the carvings". A well carved piece does not need to bring out its forms by bright paint.

Back to PNG art: Up until the 1980s, places like Oceanic Arts went through more effort to "age" their faux artifacts by washing out the paints and making them look old, just like PNG artists still do today. But responding to the changes in public taste, even OA began to not bother making their pieces look "authentic" in their colorization (see "Night of the Tiki" book). I personally prefer the vintage OA look.

Polynesian pop IS pop, yes, but if it gets TOO cartoony, TOO colorful, and TOO un-original, it just becomes POP, sans Polynesian.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2006-12-11 22:06 ]