Stone Carving: Q&A + Gallery...

By the way - thanks for the sanding tips Tama - to keep this great info with the rest of the Stone Carving Thread, here's Tama's response when I exposed the errors of my ways, from my thread:

Quote from Tama:

A very good lesson & one that every stone carvers must learn by experience. It can be tempting to think 'oh, that big scratch will come out if I just keep going a bit further/longer': 9 times out of 10, you'd be better to back a stage & get it out with a heavier paper. Sometimes they're damnedly hard to see until youve moved on a grade too. Sux eh?

There is a product locally known as 'diamond cloth' (but possibly called something else in manufacturers terms?) available in strips or as continuous belts. This stuff acts as an intermediate step between carving with diamond coated tools & sanding with wet-dry/carborundum paper. A bit too course to be called an 'ever-lasting' sandpaper & a soft version of diamond cutting tools. It comes in many grades, right up to really fine 12,000 grit or something silly.
Its not cheap but is a must-have really. You can use it by hand or loaded onto revolving drums or burrs ( I usually take jade through 400 & 800 grit after shaping is finished).

Possibly something to look out for if you plan to do more stone work - which I encourage!

Tama

Excellent words of wisdom, I have seen that Diamond cloth Somewhere, I'll have to find it.
Love the bat TGap.

Hey thanks BenZ - I found diamond cloth on 3M's website - for sale there. But you can prolly find it cheaper somewhere else. 3M's site shows what's available in what sizes/grits etc., though, with pictures! I googled "diamond cloth" and the first hit is 3m's. mmm MMM

Thanks TGap, Maybe we can find some carvers who will share an order,.

[ Edited by: Benzart 2006-12-19 11:53 ]

On 2006-12-18 18:47, Benzart wrote:
Thanks TGap, Maybe we can find some carvers who will share an order,.

I'm in! I'll do a little more searching...

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-12-18 19:01 ]

wow, that's pricey stuff.

Here's another link to an interesting place with finishing stuff and burs etc.:

Precision Surfaces Inc. They are still way expensive though.

This looks like a good place for bits and grinding stuff too:
Cabbing Machines

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-12-19 11:35 ]

On 2006-12-17 01:21, Tamapoutini wrote:
...Seems to be a reasonably amorphous (no real grain direction) stone, probably a greywacke or similar; Paip..? Should achieve a reasonable polish if not too porous.

Hi T3,

I have since found out the the rock I used for this bat is Serpentite. It's Metamorphic with no grain, and it is very hard. It is holding together well so far, amazingly (to me at least).

Thanks!

On 2006-12-19 11:41, tikigap wrote:

Hi T3,

I have since found out the the rock I used for this bat is Serpentite. It's Metamorphic with no grain, and it is very hard. It is holding together well so far, amazingly (to me at least).

Oho; 'serp'... Serpentine or serpentinite (serpentite?) is indeed a good carving stone. Does it have a greenish colour when wet? Should have, & perhaps a bit of 'serpent-like' veining/patterning?
We have a lot of it around these parts & it is the main 'pretender' that people often mistake for pounamu/jade when out fossicking. Like the 'fools gold' of the jade world, haha.

It isnt quite as strong as jade but is probably stronger than the greywacke mentioned earlier - should take a good polish too!

In its best form, it can be quite crystalline & very translucent (even more so than jade) & is called Bowenite (after its discoverer who incorrectly identified it as nephrite jade - an easy mistake, forever immortalised).

The Maori used to use this stone for ear pendants (kuru) and other jewellery (not tools or weapons) & called it 'Tangiwai' (or Takiwai in my Southern family dialect) or 'tear-water' :cry:... Aue!

'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'? A bat (for suspension) made from sepentine - bit of a mouthful perhaps..?

ROCK ON! Tama :)

Are you into geology too? You sure seem to know your rocks! Thanks for the info and the native translation... I've got to practice that mouthful!

I got my burs today! Thanks! They are exactly what I ordered and they look like they will be my most-used ones. Thanks again for setting that up!

Did you get yours today too, Ben?

Thanks again Tama (and Jen and Gary).

'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'

Say THAT 5 times real fast!

Oh, and I forgot - yes! It is BLACK when wet - real nice dark Black. And it does have a snake-skin look to it when polished.

Greg

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-12-19 13:52 ]

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-12-19 19:57 ]

On 2006-12-19 13:49, tikigap wrote:

'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'

Say THAT 5 times real fast!

...And lets get you trying to pronounce it correctly:

" Hey-Pecka-pecka-Tuck-e-why " (my phonetics..?)

*A very amateur geologist; wish I knew more but managed the above winging it & without referring to any of my books :lol: - Im sure Paipo can chip in with more; he's the one to pay attention to if youre wanting accurate info :lol:

Glad you got your burrs, no excuses now :wink:

Is there any translucency at the edges of this carving? (try wetting it & holding up to light...)

Rock on Stoners! TTT

On 2006-12-19 14:18, Tamapoutini wrote:
...And lets get you trying to pronounce it correctly:

" Hey-Pecka-pecka-Tuck-e-why " (my phonetics..?)

Thanks for straightening that out - boy did I have that messed up!

Thanks a lot again for everything! Now I'll be gettin' to 'it' tonight.

gap

On 2006-12-19 14:18, Tamapoutini wrote:

On 2006-12-19 13:49, tikigap wrote:

'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'
'Hei-pekapeka Takiwai'

Say THAT 5 times real fast!

..And lets get you trying to pronounce it correctly:

" Hey-Pecka-pecka-Tuck-e-why " (my phonetics..?)
*A very amateur geologist; wish I knew more but managed the above winging it & without referring to any of my books :lol: - Im sure Paipo can chip in with more; he's the one to pay attention to if youre wanting accurate info :lol:
Glad you got your burrs, no excuses now :wink:
Is there any translucency at the edges of this carving? (try wetting it & holding up to light...)
Rock on Stoners! TTT

that that that that that, is that 5 times fast enuf?
Hey-Pecka-pecka-Tuck-e-why
Hey-Pecka-pecka-Tuck-e-why
Hey-Pecka-pecka-Tuck-e-why

I can do it now..
No, my burs did not come today, we are ale=ways 2 days later with mail in south Florida, one of the payments for living in Paradise I guess.. I'll let you know.

On 2006-12-19 16:51, Benzart wrote:
that that that that that, is that 5 times fast enuf?

Hardee-har-har! I fell of my dinosaur!

Hey I found another cool website (from a geologist friend of mine). This link is pointing to serpentine, but on the left side of the web page there are tools to navigate that website and search for minerals. Check it out! It's pretty good!

Sepentine

I forgot to mention that I don't see any translucency in the rock - it's real black. It looked real dark green when dry, but now that I'm polishing it, it looks black, especially wet.

My geologist friend will slice off a piece and we'll see how thin I'd have to be before it is translucent.

He's got a saw at work that will slice a U.S. Dime (10 cent piece) in half - long way! The kerf is measured in micronsor something crucial like that.

Where do I start? Youre work is absolutley amazing. I still have many pages to read but what Ive seen so far is brilliant! The little sandstone Moai looks to be 4000 years old!!! Love da kine work you do!!!

Keep it up bruddah! A hui ho!

My Burs came today HURRAAAAY!!!
HappyHappyJOYJOY.
Thanks Gary
Thanks Tama the Wonderful
Now I will get to work tomorrow since im to the poly finishing of the MOAI

The serpentite, cut thin enough, is translucent, and very green.
One piece I have is 1/16th of an inch thick:

This one is about 1/32 inch thick:

A friend of mine has the saw that does this... Thanks Tim!

WOW Tgap, That is One skinny piece of stone!!
I finally used the new burs and BOB oh Boy do they cut better. BIG Difference
Here is a Lono I started today.


I will post more over in Creating tiki.
Thanks Tama

Roughing in with segmented dry cut diamond blade on a skill saw. I cut shallow parallel lines. Chiseling off the rock between the cuts. Using a four point bush hammer to begin smoothing and shaping So far. More to come. The tools I use can be seen at http://www.trowandholden.com

Cool! Wow! Just whipped that sucker out! Very nice! Now my wahine is gonna be pissed - there's some more tools I need.

Thanks. Actually, That's about 6 hours so far and it's barely roughed out. I didn't get any pictures of the initial cutting and chiseling but the first couple of hours were all skil saw and hand chisel.

[ Edited by: saxotica 2006-12-27 18:38 ]

Hey Saxotica!

Where are you from? Looks cold!

And hey! Where's Tama! I haven't heard 'hide nor hair' lately!

Tama? Hey man...I'm worried!

[ Edited by: tikigap 2006-12-27 21:49 ]

Hey Sax: Thanks for posting; thats some heavy stonework..! Ive never really tackled any larger projects but will certainly visit it in the future. Just a matter of tooling up...

On 2006-12-27 20:58, tikigap wrote:

And hey! Where's Tama! I haven't heard 'hide nor hair' lately!

Tama? Hey man...I'm worried!

TGap: Dont panic!! Just got back from Xmas out of town... Give me a day or two & Ill be back into it! (nice to know that someone cares, heehee)

Hope everyone has had a nice Xmas!

Tama :)

more progress:

SAX, Defenitely an awesome piece of work and the air tools are amazing too. Thanks for the link on the tools and stuff.
Are you going to do a full body on this guy? Heep us posted if u can.

About this weaving/braiding stuff, I have been trying for weeks, going thru a skein of string, to get a decent looking cord for pendants and it just ain't eazy. I Just got the first one that looked halfway good but need more practise. Maybe it is that "girl" thing, I dunno!

Maybe it is that "girl" thing, I dunno!

LOL, I think this braiding thing is not a "girl thing" as I am finding it impossible as well... although, really pulling it taught is a big help.

Amy

Well, PDrake posted this eBay site for Artificiaal Sinew and I believe that will make all the difference in the world.
Check it out.
And OYes, check out his Bone carved beads and other stuff.

[ Edited by: Benzart 2007-01-04 11:57 ]

I just put this Tiki in the Marketplace, if anyone is interested. Thanks!

how do you hold tiny pieces that are made for inlays? with your fingers? that stone gets warm.

Pdrake, You can get pretty stout tweezers that have rubber coatings or modify ant tweezer with Airline Tubing slipped over the tips or similar, you get the idea.You can make a small Pin vice from t sticks of wood 6 to 8" long and screwed together in the middle. Shape them to look like tweezers and clamp yor piece in between and grind away. Loosen, turn the stuff, tighten and grind away.

i have a couple of questions.

is it better to wear eye protection so the water doesn't splash in your eyes? i figure it is, but just want a definitive answer from the school taught guys.

where can i pick up some NZ green stone? i've searched far and wide. i'd like to get a couple of pieces of the clear (no inclusions) stuff.

thanks!

On 2007-01-09 19:52, pdrake wrote:

is it better to wear eye protection so the water doesn't splash in your eyes? i figure it is, but just want a definitive answer from the school taught guys.

where can i pick up some NZ green stone? i've searched far and wide. i'd like to get a couple of pieces of the clear (no inclusions) stuff.

It IS better to wear eye protection, mainly against the risk of getting a chip of stone in your eye... As for water: there is stone dust (mud) in the spray that comes off your tools. I know from experience that a few hours with jade-spray in the eyes causes a temporary (the rest of the day) 'cloudiness' to vision. Dont know about other stone types..? I personally only wear eye protection when cutting on the trimsaw or similar 'heavy' work. I dont wear them for normal grinding with diamond wheels or handpiece - (kids, dont try this at home! Adults, at your own risk!)

And if you find any top quality inclusion-free NZ pounamu Ill pay you double what you paid!! :lol: Its pretty hard to find the really good stuff & very costly when/if you do... (PM me & I see what I can do)

Tama :)

*But you can get some lovely jade in the USA... I recieved this wee lot in the mail this morning.
All are Wyoming nephrite apart from the three centre pieces, top row, (which are Siberian, Siberian & Guatamalan jadeite! yippee)

If I were in the States Id be going for this stuff; very nice!!!

Tama :)

okay, this thread is dying. let's kick it up as i have tons of questions. i need input from everyone. the more the merrier. we all have tons of little things we do and it would be cool to share them.

i'm shopping for a micro motor. yeah, sometimes i have some beers when i carve. yeah, i use a mag visor, i'm old. when i do this the bit and piece are a blur. i'm betting it's the bit and the dremel. from what i've read here from our stone carvers the micro motors don't vibrate. i think i can drink my beer and oogle stuff close up. hehehehe

my dad sent me some info about the turbo carver. it's a micro carver using compressed air. it also has a water atomizor attachment. i have a decent sized compressor. should i look into this or keep my eye on the foredom?

it's a hunk of change for me so a definitive answer is greatly appreciated. i really appreciate all the skill and experience here. much better than some stuck up, carving message board.

perry

Pdrake, I have a smakk aor "pencilgrinder" from harbor frieght that works well except that it uese a Lot of air and My compressor is small. It only goes for $15 or so and I would try something like that before I sunk money into a good one. Google Air mini grinders to see tons.

Yep, give the air a go - it is the industry standard in the factories here. A brand of air handpiece I know some of the pros use is Ushiyo / Ushio?
Those of us that use the micromotors are in the minority, but it comes down to personal preference.
I'd save the beers until the carving is done for the day too - anything that increases your chances of mistakes or accidents is not a good thing.

I'm having a hard time figuring this Hai-Tiki out. Can't quite see where all the parts are. This is an ebay auction from Gladstone,Australia. See the auction HERE
Or here it is
Maybe it was ad adz or something with pre drilled holes that had to be worked around, like that long, vertical straight hollow through his chest.

[ Edited by: Benzart 2007-01-23 11:41 ]

On 2007-01-23 11:30, Benzart wrote:
I'm having a hard time figuring this Hai-Tiki out. Can't quite see where all the parts are.

Maybe it was ad adz or something with pre drilled holes that had to be worked around...

YIKES! Gorrilla-tiki :lol:
Nah; not an old one. Those arm/leg holes are a giveaway; too perfectly round & more specifically, parallel-walled. Nothing but a diamond burr could go through so cleanly. The seller does state that it was purchased new about 8yrs ago.

For some reason Australia hosts an extrordinary number of old-ISH, unique-but-lame 'genuine Maori' hei-tiki auctions. Dont know why..? Doesnt hurt to keep an eye out though Ben. If you come across a mislabelled/undervalued genuine neolithic (stone-made) one, it'd almost be worth it's weight in gold! Grab it!*You'd have to get through me in the bidding tho... :wink:

TTT

Check this out,

I need to get one of these. I could carve life size tikis out of stone, Man, I am a drooling.

website
http://www.icsbestway.com

JP

On 2007-01-27 16:59, JohnnyP wrote:
Check this out,
I need to get one of these. I could carve life size tikis out of stone, Man, I am a drooling.

WOW!! Not as much as I am mate... I'd go carve myself a cave, move in & get to work on the rest of the Mountain! :D

T3

On 2007-01-27 16:59, JohnnyP wrote:
Check this out,

I need to get one of these. I could carve life size tikis out of stone, Man, I am a drooling.

website
http://www.icsbestway.com

JP

And they are available on eBay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&maxrecordsreturned=300&frpp=50&from=R10&satitle=ICS+Gas+Powered+Concrete+Cutting+Chain+Saws&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=10009&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1

Dang! I'm in! Johnny, you wanna split on one?

-Gman

eek! rescued from page 2...

Anybody stonin'..?

Hi Guys
Have had a go at a couple of projects in Jade a hook and a VW logo, the hook was quite easy bieng flat and pretty straight edged, the VW logo was hard with so many internal surfaces. My question is, after using burrs at a faster speed for cutting followed by reducing the speed for sanding, how the hell do you continue to sand and polish in the tighter spots. I tried using wet and dry paper, but because I couldn't get any pressure I didn't get anywhere, maybe I tried too tough a project. Here's a pic, It broke so it's not finished (I thought I'd quit whilst ahead) but I plaited it anyway.

Help
Help
Help
Regards
Flynny

On 2007-02-15 23:31, flynny wrote:
the VW logo was hard with so many internal surfaces. My question is, after using burrs at a faster speed for cutting followed by reducing the speed for sanding, how the hell do you continue to sand and polish in the tighter spots. I tried using wet and dry paper, but because I couldn't get any pressure I didn't get anywhere

Yay for Flynny - Thanks for sharing this.

The old "how the Hell do I get in and clean that up" problem, eh..? If only you could astral-travel over to my workshop young Jadi...

One way to tackle the problem of tight-spots is to avoid them right from the design stage (I dont think Mr Volks or Mr Wagon had considered how well their new logo might translate into jade :lol: ) The only problem is that you wont really know what can or cant be done until you've had a go at making a few. Time & experience will hone this one.

I would advise using 'diamond cloth' in between carving & sanding stages. This can be utilised in a number of ways (which I think have been discussed earlier?) & a good trick for getting into those holes is to hold the work in a small bench vice & feed a strip of diamond cloth (and later folded strips of wet n dry paper) through the holes & work back and forth with a little water. With me?

Generally rounded/curvilinear forms are easier to clean up also; geometric shapes & tight corners are just asking for trouble...

Hope this helps - and thanks for helping to rescue the Stoners thread, man...

--

Tama :)

Tama
After spending ages trying to track down Diamond Cloth, I have found a supplier who will produce 2 inch square pieces of various grades for about £12 ( the most expensive to about £5), the backing can either be left as natural, or velcro or self adhesive, which one would be best. For different grades it will cost about £80 is this about right??
Regards
Flynny