The End of the Shag Era? Officially un-cool? Afraid so.

Exactly who died and made you the "cool" police? *

Well, I may be mistaken, but I believe it was the late Lord Kahukini, protectorate of the Cool, His Eminence the Suave.

• You refer to Shag like he's as commonplace as McDonald's. *

Yes! Shag Happy meals, McShag Shake, Quarter Shag with cheese. I am sure Josh and his agent are on this already.

*Maybe your still in high school, which would explain your views.
*

That a douche, Mr. Donahue called my Mom and told her I cheated on my Algrebra II mid-term. Now, my stepdad took away the keys to my Jetta. I have to ride the bus to school now, with the dweeb Treekie kids and those retard Tiki geeks. Gawwwd, if Keith Milner sees me with those idiots he won't ever ask me to the Summer semi-formal.

midnite

ps I am so cool Keith Richards has a pictue of me on his wall.

pps I am so cool my nickname on the colege tennis team was..."he's really cool".

ppps Jesus Roller Skating Christ, Shag is making a mint of low-grade derivative commercial illustration. I tip my hat to the guy, good for him. I'd do it, but he thought of it first, and that's art.

midnite tiki,

You played tennis in college. That is definately cool!! The game where love means nothing, my favorite sport!

You played tennis in college. That is definately cool!!
*

Oh yeah, number 4 singles, but at Orange Coast College, a JC in Costa Mesa. Not an academic powerhouse but we were on par with many Division II tennis programs.

Tennis players and Formula One drivers, they get all the best babes, yes sir. That's "professional" tennis players, though. Mid-ranked Orange County junior players have their groupies, mind you, but the pickings are small.

midnite

midnite tiki,

Would you be interested in a match to determine the Tennis champ of tiki central?
We can have a tiki mug as the trophy. Maybe start a TC tradition.

midnite tiki,

Would you be interested in a match to determine the Tennis champ of tiki central?
We can have a tiki mug as the trophy. Maybe start a TC tradition.
*

Ha ha, I have played once in the past eight years or so. Have not played consistently since my undergrad days at USC, where our #1 singles at OCC, the year before me, played #8 for 'SC tennis. That was back in, holy shit, 1986.

To think I used to cry if it rained, no tennis! Now, I can barely watch it on television. Who are these guys, where's Johhny Mac, Bjorn?

The Adidas are put away, those days are over.

midnite

What's cool is not giving a shit what other people think about what you collect, like or dislike, and continuing to enjoy it whether or not your obsession is in favour or out of favour with popular opinion. To me, if someone liked U2 before they were mainstream, then CONTINUED to listen to them even when they became popular instead of going 'duuude, they sold out and they suck', well, they have balls and are cool. That's my definition of the word.

Cool = not caring what's cool.

P.S. I think paint by numbers wildlife is cool, too!

P.P.S. I'm not a U2 fan. It was just a handy analogy.

I was way late on the Shag thing, and was blown away when I found out the prices he was getting for his prints. Although I still don't own any of his prints, I still admire his style and think his art looks great in a retro, mid-century modern environment.
In my view, whatever which way his talent and American capitalism take him is just fine. I think it is great that he designed the mug for the Hukilau this year.. very generous, much aloha.
I also think it would be nice if Jimmy Buffet showed up at the Hukilau...
KG

On 2003-06-08 21:04, Brad "The Beachcomber" Owens wrote:
...It's not like he is Shag-Mart...

Have you seen

http://www.shagmart.com ?

But that aside, I still like shag. I have a print of "Three Musicians" that was made from a photo he sent me (by permission) before prints were available, and
It still holds a special place in the bar. Do I own shag soap? no. Is shag still cool?
Depends on if you look to others to define what is cool. Is he trendy? whoa yes! is trendy cool? that depends on if you are the trend setter or the trend follower. if you are a trend setter, then no trendy is not cool. if you are a trend follower, then trendy is cool. It is a tough one. Many of us were into Tiki before we knew anyone else was into it. Were we cool? I don't know about you, but back then most of my friends looked at my tiki mugs and Hawaiian shirts with mild amusement at best, disgust at worst. Now most of them are into it. Cool goes back and forth. Tiki mugs were cool at one time. Then they were over marketed, and were everywhere you looked. they became uncool, so most people got rid of them. Some of us saw them at thrift stores, and bought one, two , three, we had a collection. then we started making extra trips to find these things. Then it seems to catch on. they get scarce, then they are deemed collectable. Now that $1 mug from goodwill fetches $100 on ebay. Tiki is fashionable. Tiki is cool. Tiki is way over marketed. In another decade or two, there will be shelves full of Tiki mugs in your local thrift. Some kid will buy them, and it starts over...
What is cool? Cool is doing what you like, regardless of the feeling of the masses.

On 2003-06-07 17:59, kahukini wrote:
I doubt the favorite items in your tiki bar were purchased at the mall.

I am so glad you said that, because I was wondering about that. Way back when, where did people get all this stuff? I mean, tiki mugs came from tiki bars, but what about tiki torches? Plaster wall hangings?
Other things that make my heart go pitter-pat, like Melmac, fondue pots, Pyrex, anondized aluminum, barware, bullet-shaped kitchen mixers, and formica-topped tables were advertized in ladies' magazines and available at Sears. Was it the same for tiki stuff?

I like Shag's stuff a lot and I still think Shag is cool (by my own definition - which is really the only one I care about), although I do not get cable and I have not seen the Showtime or Spike presentations.

That said, as much as I would like to own a Shag, $5000 for an original and $500 for a print is NOT what I would call cool. So unless I fins one in somebody's trash, or decide to have one commissioned, that will probably never happen.

On 2003-06-09 11:09, PiPhiRho wrote:
as much as I would like to own a Shag, $5000 for an original and $500 for a print is NOT what I would call cool. So unless I fins one in somebody's trash, or decide to have one commissioned, that will probably never happen.

The good news here is that things which become cool and then trendy inevitably become yesterday's news. Someone else said it: someday Shag mugs will be on the shelves at thrift stores. Probably prints too. If you are still into it then, you may find one cheap and take it home.

Until then, you could always videotape the Spike network, hit pause, and stare at the screen. :) Hey, if you had one of those plasma T.V.s that hang on the wall....

I don't know art, but I know what I like!

Now back to living in terror of not being misunderstood.

If we play tennis can I just cuss and strut around and toss racquets like MacEnroe?

I think the fact that so many people here feel so passionately (positively or negatively) proves that Shag's work continues to be very valid and relevant. In my opinion, good art provokes a reaction in the viewer. Some people love it, some people hate it, others alter their opinions as they truly undersand the art better. If I were a popular artist I would always prefer even negative reactions to my art as opposed to no reaction at all.

As far as "cool" goes, that's a concept that can really only be defined by each individual. Without a doubt, Shag's art fits into my personal definition of cool. I try very hard not to be influenced by other's critiques and opinions on any art but that can be difficult as I'm only human. In a perfect world I think we would all respect each others opinions, especially on something as subjective as art, and in some cases agree to disagree. Of course, feel free to disagree with me.

ModMana :drink:

[ Edited by: ModMana on 2003-06-09 13:20 ]

Oh, definitely put me down for the TC Tennis Tournament. I'm picturing a bunch of tipsy players running around the court in their Hawaiian shirts with an open bar courtside...

ModMana :drink:

Declaring that Shag stuff is "officially un-cool" based on a hangup about mainstream accessibility is pretty hard to take seriously. But amazingly this seems to be a serious comment, as if "cool" is literally defined by whether or not showing something off elicits approval from some select group of hipsters, and elicits dumbfounded stares from everyone else. I've heard that there are people who think like this, just never seen one in action!

I would comment that Shag's style is pop art, so it's no surprise that it appeals to an ever-increasing audience. Even though basic inertia still limits his exposure to a very small percentage of the population, there's no question that it's broadening. If that changes the opinion of anyone who "knew him when", based on some subjective notion of "cool", that's fine because everyone's gotta have their own reasons. But I'd argue that it never was cool to seek validation by name-dropping Shag (or any artist), whether it was 4 years ago or today.

Incidentally, for all the talk of the riches and wealth that Shag is supposedly reaping, I wonder what the threshold is where people start getting resentful like this. Do you think he makes more money from his art and merch, than an arbitrary possible selection from among his neighbors? A lawyer? A doctor? Being in so-cal, maybe someone in the entertainment business? Is it any of our business to speculate or pass judgment on how much is too much? Is it more acceptable to be like Bob and Leroy at OA? In other words, you can make a living, but if you get too popular we'll declare you un-cool too!

-Randy

YEAH! What he said -- every word!!

I lift this Mai Tai in your honor, aquarj!

-Mug

Who really cares if Shag is cool or not?

Somebody obviously thinks he is, because they are paying him to illustrate their brand identity.

I do graphic design for a living, and I've never looked at a design by a 'famous" art director and thought, "Omigod, they've sold out!" Graphic design (commerical art, too) is the bastard child of art and commerce.

It's business, baby. And art, too. I wish I was as cool (wealthy?) as Shag.

[ Edited by: kingslod on 2003-06-09 15:58 ]

Shag, Shag who?

There is no cool.

The mainstream popularity of tiki and Shag will soon fade. When it does, it will go through a phase of being painfully un-hip.
We'll see a mini-replay of the 1970s.

So the question is this: Are you going to be like those 1970s/1980s folks who bulldozed their tiki bars to make room for something trendier?

I would hope not.

CJ

Ok, I see a mild interest in tennis among the tikiphiles. So at the next Tiki Oasis I will organize a doubles tournament with the following rules.

Tennis attire required ie. Hawaiian shirts!
Pina Coloda's served during changeovers.
Participants must use old wooden racquets
Women cannot wear bra's (I wish!)
First place will be a Shag mug donated by me.

I'm sittin' in my wicker chair with my fake Uggs on listening to U2 and sippin' a pina colada outta a Shag mug.

My feet are warm and my head is tingling.

And my hair is perfect.

:music: It's a beautiful day
don't let it get away :music:

Aloha,

Uncle Arty

IN THE ZEN OF STEN

[ Edited by: stentiki on 2003-06-09 21:36 ]

Ditto!

Basement Kahuna wrote:
If we play tennis can I just cuss and strut around and toss racquets like MacEnroe.

I'm in. :lol:

To describe cool is narcocistic - tell me what's cool in 10 days or 10 months and then use the American system and wreap the rewards. Put forth the effort because if you can define cool than you can be in high demand. Believe in your art or your effort - take the plunge and love what you do. Shag is one of the nicest guys that I know - period. He's talented and he's successful. This site started out as a devotion to Tiki and "TO SHAG". Thank you Shag for all that you've done with me and keep up the good work. This thread slightly pisses me off and then conversely reminds me of the good people that post, whom I know and and respect, that post intelligently and thoughtfully without attempting to be the definers of a word such as cool (I beg the cliche "GIVE ME A BREAK!"). I'll bet my 1st edition set of Shag mugs against the originator of this post that Shag is still "cool" a year from now (the odds are in your favor - you've already defined him as uncool) - what do you have to annie up? How will you define if you won or I won - please let me know.
Holden

[ Edited by: smogbreather on 2003-06-09 23:10 ]

Holden, I don't know what you're talking about. I know what I'm talking about, but you're one of the apparently 75% of people that don't understand what I'm talking about.
I'm a tiki fanatic, I love shag, I'll never get rid of my tiki bar, only improve it, eventually building a tiki house & tiki gardens. But man that was cool when Shag was cool wasn't it? Such is the nature of art, it goes through fazes. Of the 75% of people who disagree with my declaration, most of those are saying "yeah, so what." I don't care about the so what, I was just pointing out the "yeah" and morning the passing of Shag's cool phase into really pop pop art. More power to him.

A lot of people on this board, including myself, use the term “cool” to mean “I like it”.

But there is a certain type of person who judge things based on Kahukini’s definition of cool. I know plenty of people who are like this: Doc Martins were cool to them – until they started showing up on the feet of the cast of Beverly Hills 90210. Ska was cool, man they sure loved their Ska – until Ska videos started to show up on MTV.

To these people, Shag showing up on the SpikeTV website is a major blow. They are now regretting they got Shag tattoos. They’re pealing off their Shag stickers from the bottom of their skateboards and Trapper Keepers. They’re removing their Shag desktop wallpaper and deleting their Tiki Tones Nokia custom ringtones.

And I can see why. Seeing Shag art on the front page of the TNN website is the last place I thought I’d ever see it.

But it doesn’t bother me at all. I still think of Shag the same way. I’ll still show my Shag art off to everyone. Why? Because I never thought Shag was cool. I’ve always thought that as a painter Shag is Square. His paintings are everything that “real” paintings aren’t. In a time when most artists pride themselves on their expression and brushwork, Shag goes out of his way to make his paintings look as defined and deliberate as his computer illustrations. And while most artists are serious and pretentious about their work, Shag doesn’t bat an eye as he releases calendars, stationary, and soap. That’s part of the reason I like him so much. Because he’s not cool, he’s square. Like most of us here.

So I guess when I see he’s “Officially” declared un-cool, I wonder: What took you so long? I thought that was one of his appeals.

(and really Kahukini, you have to realize this is really a subjective thing and that there’s no clear-cut way to define “Shag’s Presence on TNN’s website” as the moment he became uncool, right?)

“You can give a hundred examples of what it isn’t, but man you’re gonna have a hell of a time saying what it is.” -Geets Romo, on the definition of Cool, from “How To Speak Hip”

~Hanford

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore on 2003-06-10 01:55 ]

No, I can't define it, which probably is why this thread is so long.
Perhaps our collective conclusion is that Shag as an idea and an image has evolved, and the TNN website was an episode of punctuated equlibrium. Only time well tell how dramatic the punctuation (for the origin of this reference, search for Stephen Jay Gould).
But I have a feeling it's going to get harder to introduce new people to Shag art, which is fun, because they'll already know about it! It's like the "is tiki getting too popular" threads of olde. If you haven't had the experience of welcoming uninitiated friends or friends-of-friends into your totatally decked out tiki bar, watching their jaws drop, and entertaining them with social history they never knew about, music they've never heard, and drinks the likes of which they've never tasted - if you haven't experienced this, it's easy to say "I don't care what other people think." But if you have, you know how fun it is, and if you're honest you have to admit that getting closer to the day when you welcome that first group of "uninitiated" into your tiki bar who associate your style with The Man Show, is sad indeed.

Hanford, I'll wear my Doc Martin's till the day that I die.

Since it was a cable company that somewhat lead to this thread I am now glad that I got rid of mine a while back. It frees up money for tiki stuff and time to work on the bar. In fact I say we should all rise up and cancel all cable and put rabbit ears back on the TV. Talk about look cool in the living room.

cable bad. rabbit good.

I've been checking this thread out and laughing my a$$ off. Tiki peeps, it's art(not gonna appeal to everybody) not the cure to SARS.

If you do find the cure for SARS, let me know, I might need it!

Ha ha. Just joking. It's really the Canadian mad cows you have to watch out for now.

*On 2003-06-10 10:52, thechikitiki wrote:*I've been checking this thread out and laughing my a$$ off. Tiki peeps, it's art(not gonna appeal to everybody)

But Art is worth discussing, passionately at times, is it not?

Hmmmmm sounds like if I can find my old Stan Smiths in the basement (I had about three pairs) those days may NOT be over. If I wear them in the TC tourney, do I get bonus points or something? That seems only fair. I was on the #1 doubles team in high school, but before you start envisioning me as your partner, you'd best know that I've barely played since then so probably really awful...

re: Shag
My shag shelf remains regardless of what anyone else likes or doesn't like. I also have a Nightmare Before Christmas display case and have had a few negative remarks on that (they just don't understand the appeal) but that's what makes it fun...differing opinions and likes.

Also, I'm an Agassi fan, so don't partner me up with a Sampras fan.

Exoticat,

I'm a Kournikova fan. Is that ok. I agree Agassi is much more interesting than Sampras, but Sampras is in my mind the best of all time.

Holy shit! 6 pages! Blah, blah, blah, blah blah...

p.s. blah blah blah

Hope this pushes us into page 7.

You know I only joined TC because it was this cool underground society that enhanced my hipness as I introduced others to my "find". Now that it's over 1000 members i'm so over this passe' forum. I hear the upcoming "cool" thing is in-home green tea colonic parties. Hey Kahukini, i'll race you to be the first one there!

On 2003-06-10 20:38, Atomic Cocktail wrote:
Holy shit! 6 pages! Blah, blah, blah, blah blah...

Ditto!

Woah. Seven pages.

Well I can't help but wonder what the unholy spawn of Hello Kitty and Shag would look like?

Well, I thought I could go without posting to this, but I can't. Shag is not cool. Shag is Zazz!

Johnnie Zazzlour

Re: Blah blah blah

Please people, if you don't want to discuss it, then simply don't read it. And don't reply to it. It would make it easier for this to stay on-topic.

You may not like some of the things being said here but it's totally on-topic, very close to other discussions we've had, and it's worth discussing.

~hanford

Most of his art is kinda cool...kinda beatnik rather than total TiKi, but...I think his mugs are to die for. Although every time a new set comes out and there are only a few that get snatched up by mega-buck traders, I get so pissed that its starting to morph over to the mugs themself...my 2 cents

On 2003-06-11 04:28, hanford_lemoore wrote:

Please people, if you don't want to discuss it, then simply don't read it. And don't reply to it. It would make it easier for this to stay on-topic.

You may not like some of the things being said here but it's totally on-topic, very close to other discussions we've had, and it's worth discussing.

~hanford

Am I not also allowed to post my observations on the topic? That's how I feel brother! But since I got your panties in an uproar I'll post something "constructive":

The Art Industry is a load of shit. It purpose is to hype that which has no intrinsic value, usually for the benefit of dealers. So if Shag has been able to reap the benefits of his own work that makes him a sell out and "un-cool"? What if instead of an "artist" he was a suit-monkey glued to computer screen at (insert your companies name here)? Now that would be "cool"!

[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail on 2003-06-11 10:02 ]