Orange Liquor Throwdown Challenge

I have to add Rhum Clement "Creole Shrubb to this throw down.
As of yesterday when I first tried this at the Wine Warehouse tasting, its my new favorite( including Marie Bizzard )

Ben, who's family has been making rum since 1887, is rightfully proud of this orange liquor. I thought to myself as he poured it, lets see how it compares to a good curacao, I was blown away. Almost too good to use in drinks but I have to.

Ben is the GM and VP at Rhum Clement and I invited him to join us here since he is into Tiki and all. (Hey Ben)
What a story his family has, the history of Rhum Clement starting in the 1800's. Talk about rum doing good, how about saving a island? Read below
Ben invites everyone to visit him at Tiki Oasis where Rhum Clement will have a portable bar. Stop by and say hi and try this orange liquor, see what you think.

quote
Clement Creole Shrubb

Clement Creole Shrubb is a blends of white and aged rums with mascerated creole spices and sun-bleached bitter orange peels.

“ A supple silky entry leads into a glycerous and moderately sweet medium body of rock candy, honey, dried orange and grapefruit peel, and a dash of pepper. Finishes in a creamy sweet orange and peppery spice fade with a coppery tang. Vibrant, purely flavored and well intergrated.”

92 points, Exceptional- Gold Medal
-Beverage Testing Institute
Item Name+

Rhum Clement "Creole Shrubb"; Martinique Rum 80 proof
A blend of the finest white rhums and aged rhums with macerated bitter orange peels and exotic Créole spices married together in oak barrels.....

History

In the latter half of the nineteenth century, Martinique was the source of the highest quality of sugar for Europe and was the epicenter for all Caribbean sugar commerce. By 1883, a great sugar crisis overtook the island because European countries used less expensive sugar from South and Central America, In 1887, Homere Clement, the mayor of Le Francois, purchased the prestigious sugar plantation in his village.
Out of banlrupsy. His intentions were simply to stop the rioting planter’s and have them return to the fields to harvest sugarcane again, not to be refined into sugar, but to be pressed for their natural juice and to distill rum. He took the imaginative idea from the brandy producers of southern France who were distilling grape wine into Cognacs. Homere is now coined as the father of Agricole.

[ Edited by: Ojaitimo 2008-05-07 15:36 ]

I'm going to chime in about Clement's Creole Shrubb. It's makes for an exquisite mai tai. At TikiBocce III, we went through an entire 750ml bottle of it in about two hours, just using 1/2oz. in our mai tai. Word got out around the party and everyone had to have one.

Definitely pick up a bottle if you see it.

I, too, have to praise the Clement Shrubb. Excellent stuff. I have yet to try it in a Mai Tai - I enjoy sipping it too much - but I will.

Bump

Stop by the Clement bar at Tiki Oasis and sample the Creole Shrub. Ben is also part of the rum symposium on Saturday and will be sampling Clement rums. Say hello for all of us TCers who wish we were there.

Creole Shrubb in a Mai Tai works well.... but the rum pairing in the Mai Tai does matter.

Here is a new orange liquor that Bev Mo now stocks. Has anyone tasted it yet?

Picked up a new bottle at Bev Mo last night (actually old style bottle whch I lke better) to take to the Rincon Room for making Mai Tai's at Bongofury's party.

I tried the Shrubb while in St. Barth's last year, and the bottle, just like the one pictured above, didn't last 3 days. I had help, but it did not feel like heavy drinking.

At Oasis, I stumbled into the Norcal room Friday night, and made some killin' Mai Tais at 1am, using the Shrubb. I hadn't thought of that last year, but I'm now a believer. A Shrubb-liever, if you will.

And, yes, the rum blend is crucial.

Hi folks....
I checked out this thread yesterday in my crazed attempt to figure out what, if anything, can replace orange curacao in a Mai Tai. We're having a Memorial Day Party on Saturday and I thought Mai Tais would be a big hit. I've never made them but I've been shaking cocktails at home for over a year now and mostly stick to classics or variations of. I made my orgeat two nights ago and it's definitely on the sweet side but incredibly delicious.

Here's the thing -- I'm in Pennsylvania and it might as well be Prohibition here with the antiquated liquor laws and regulations. Selection of even the most rudimentary spirits can be hard to come by and guess what...there is NO orange curacao anywhere in this god forsaken place. Yes, there's blue but I think I'd rather use orange juice than make a blue drink that's not supposed to be blue.

I'm still not seeing from this thread whether anyone thinks I can get away with using triple sec or cointreau as a replacement. Keep in mind my orgeat is sweet. I'm not going to add any simple syrup and I will be using Appletons for my base. Not sure about a rum floater but definitely fresh mint.
Oh...someone also mentioned Citron. Is that another possible option?

I'm bummed that I can't do the original but I'm hoping for something better than passing. Nobody at my party will notice if it's not exact but I'll know. If I can create something tasty I'd be ok...

So help a mama out. Please!

On 2010-05-26 05:59, Mama Z wrote:
...Yes, there's blue but I think I'd rather use orange juice than make a blue drink that's not supposed to be blue.

I'm still not seeing from this thread whether anyone thinks I can get away with using triple sec or cointreau as a replacement.

Blue can be used if you have nothing else available. Just switch to opaque glasses or mugs. Your Mai Tai will taste fine, but the color will be very unfortunate.

I use Cointrau in my Mai Tais and am very pleased. It is a more expense spirit, but I like the dryness of it and it compliments my homemade orgeat very well (mine's also on the sweeter side).

Triple Sec works well too, just make sure you get a 'good one.' In my opinion, the Bols tastes like Orange Gasoline, and the DeKyuper might as well be Orange Cough Syrup. Your mileage may vary because I am spoiled with the Cointreau.

Your best bet is to make one with what you have and see if it tastes good. Then adjust the recipe to balance your Triple Sec/Cointrau/Creole/Citron with your homebrew Orgeat.

I'll see your Cointreau and raise you some Grand Marnier. (Triple Sec as a last resort)
Grand Marnier might be expensive but it does have enough brand recognition to be available in some remote liquor stores.

I also prefer Cointreau. It's drier and has a more bitter orange flavor. Grand Marnier is good, but has a lot of vanilla and woody brandy undertones. The orange flavor is not as pronounced. It's all a matter of finding your personal preference.

This looks like a great online liquor store for those of you you back East in a dryer than wet county or state.
PLUS they have some pretty cool bundles of liquers.

http://www.drinkupny.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=curacao

I really do like the Senior Curacao of Curacao

http://www.curacaoliqueur.com/index.php

I prefer Cointreau, but my other 1/2 prefers Grand Marnier, so we always seem to have both in the bar

On 2010-05-26 09:29, Sparkle Mark wrote:
I really do like the Senior Curacao of Curacao

http://www.curacaoliqueur.com/index.php

Five Thumbs Up on the Senior Curacao! Get it! You will not be disappointed.

On 2010-05-26 09:29, Sparkle Mark wrote:
This looks like a great online liquor store for those of you you back East in a dryer than wet county or state.
PLUS they have some pretty cool bundles of liquers.

http://www.drinkupny.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=curacao

I really do like the Senior Curacao of Curacao

http://www.curacaoliqueur.com/index.php

That would be lovely if you could actually buy liquor online and have it shipped to PA. You can only do so through our liquor control board.
I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said it's like Prohibition here. Afaik, we're still the only state in the country where the laws are still this antiquated.

Hello Mama Z,

As a former resident of Pennsylvania (my family still lives there), I hear your plea. Since I am often called to task to do some bartending at family events, I find myself always traveling with supplements to the local available cocktail ingredients. The Pennsylvania Sate Liquor Control Board offers their product pricelist as a .pdf online (http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/Product_Management/Files/productCatalog.PDF) with much undue pride I might add.

Chip's suggestions make sense to me in your particular pinch. I always liked the idea of using cointreau but never got the balance right. Since Chip says he's done it, I will give it another try. Better to risk going high on the quality than compensating for mediocre ingredients.

When you do get the opportunity to purchase at will, I go along with those who are using Curacao or Creole Shrub in their Mai Tais. I use the Marie Brizard orange curacao. It's my current favorite. I tried their Grand Orange also but found it too dry. I use Martiki-bird's homemade orgeat (when I can) and it's not as sweet as commercially available. The Grand Orange isn't that easy to come by either.

Martiki-bird came up with a good idea recently after we attended a Compass Box Whisky tasting. Compass Box makes an orange zest infused whisky product called "Orangerie." She subbed that for curacao in a Mai Tai and got a wonderful drink - a smokey Mai Tai.

Hmmmm... maybe we should call it the LOST Mai Tai. ; - )

I wouldn't do that to all my Mai Tais, of course!

-Jack

On 2010-05-26 10:13, tabuzak wrote:
...I always liked the idea of using cointreau but never got the balance right.

This is my recipe and everyone I serve it to makes those yummy kinds of noises all the way down to the bottom of the glass which is about the time the yummy noises turn to slurpy empty glass noises.

3/4 ounce fresh lime
1/4 Bar Syrup
1/4 Orgeat
3/4 Cointrau
1 1/2 St James
1 1/2 Appleton VX or better

Shake with cracked ice, strain over crushed ice. Pineapple Spear, Mint, two short straws, and an orchid if you have it handy.

I use 1/2 Orgeat and skip the bar syrup. My Orgeat is pretty sweet.

Adjust the first four ingredients as needed to balance your particular ingredients.

For my Top Shelf version I use El Dorado 15 and Appelton VX with Senior Curacao.

As always, your mileage may vary.

This is my recipe and everyone I serve it to makes those yummy kinds of noises all the way down to the bottom of the glass which is about the time the yummy noises turn to slurpy empty glass noises.

Thanks! I am going to give that a try!

is your orgeat recipe on TC also?

-Greedy Jack

For my Top Shelf version I use El Dorado 15 and Appelton VX with Senior Curacao.

So you prefer the Senior Curacao over the Cointreau?

-Jack

Does anyone here ever use Controy? - basically a Cointreau knockoff made and sold in Mexico. It usually runs only about $10 a bottle. I read somewhere that it's the same stuff as Patron Citronage.

"Controy"? That's hilarious! Probably sold by by guys wearing "Rolexxx" watches :)

I'll use Controy in a pinch (and I have in Mexico) but it is closer to triple sec than orange curacao.

Hands down my favorite orange curacao (so far).

That stuff just hit our marketplace! It's only available at one place so far and I suspect it's going to be overpriced. But it just got a shout out in this month's Imbibe, so it's gotta' be good! I think I'm going to have to splurge...

I just grabbed this yesterday at Viscount in Wappingers, NY. I bought it mostly on the strength of David Wondrich's involvement with its development. I would say it has a more pronounced orange note; it worked well in the Knickerbocker I shook (old-timey recipe almost identical to a Mai Tai except raspberry replaces the orgeat).

It was $28.99.

No love for Creole Shrubb ?

Lots of love for Clement Creole. I haven't gone through the thread, but I've had it in many drinks, and although it's quite costly, it's a fantastic booze, and really adds to the complexity of a well made mai tai or any other drink.

They use it in the Tikiphile Mai Tai at the Grass Skirt Tiki Room.

Looks like it's not a whole lot more costly than the other fine spirits we talk about here. I just found it in stock at my local "huge" liquor store for 29.99 for a 750ml bottle. I'll have to give it a try, I see that it has pretty good reviews online.

Plenty of love from me for the Creole Shrubb, especially when I snagged it for $14 a few years ago here in Oregon! I use it when I'm making myself a top-shelf Mai Tai. Haven't tried the Pierre Ferrand yet, but looking forward to it from all the raves I see and hear.

I like the Clement Creole Shrub, too, tend to hoard it.

I finally picked up a bottle of the Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao this weekend. I'm trying it right now in a Mai Tai along with some Smith & Cross and Depaz Agricole. Early returns are positive. I also served it to a few others this weekend and received no complaints.

True to its name, as soon as you smell this Curaçao you notice how dry it is. Sometime over the next week or so I'm going to try and sit down and compare it to my 2 standards: Creole Shrubb and Senior Curaçao (both pretty different in their own right).

kevin

I really like Pierre Ferrand Dry Curacao, i tried it the first time at Tales at their session. I haven`t had a chance to try the Senior´s Curacao since it´s not sold outside of the US but i hope to try it some day.

Before i got the Ferrand´s i used Cointreau in somewhat smaller amount in my Mai Tai`s due to i find it quite strong.

[ Edited by: Little fragrant Tiare 2013-03-05 03:57 ]

Ferrand Dry Curaçao is at the top of my list to try. heylownine, I would really like to know how it works in your Mai Tai. I switched to Marie Brizard Orange Curaçao last year when the brand became available in my area, and I'm making the best Mai Tai's ever.

On 2013-03-05 19:57, CincyTikiCraig wrote:
Ferrand Dry Curaçao is at the top of my list to try. heylownine, I would really like to know how it works in your Mai Tai. I switched to Marie Brizard Orange Curaçao last year when the brand became available in my area, and I'm making the best Mai Tai's ever.

Trying to do the comparison today...if not today then Monday. The bottle is on my counter taunting me...

kevin

Ok, I don't want to bury the lede (or lead, if you prefer): Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao has taken the place of Senior Curaçao as my house Curaçao for a Mai Tai.

How did I get there? In my home bar I typically stock Senior Curaçao and Creole Shrubb. I also have other curaçaos for mixing in larger quantities (or for 5th/6th drinks). For this post, I've not pitted Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao against Creole Shrubb*. It's simply Senior Curaçao vs. Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao. I'll compare it to the Shrubb in another post.

Served neat and side-by-side, the differences between the 2 are obvious. The Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao is a much lighter color, almost golden, in the glass. It smells of fresh orange peel. The Senior Curaçao is a brighter orange in the glass and has a strong scent of, primarily, orange soda. Don't let that discourage you; it merely has a pronounced orange scent, mixed with sugar. I'm quite sure it's as intended. Senior Curaçao's taste is a thick orange taste with little to no finish. It's sweeter than the Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao, but not cloying. While I would not drink it neat, it's a good curaçao, and it still has a home in my bar. Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao is true to it's name: dry, orange, and bright. It has a subtle, slow, but lingering finish that lingers on the back of the throat. Perhaps this is attributable to it being 80 proof, compared to 62 for the Senior.

So look, that's great and all, but none of us are coming here to drink curaçao straight. How does it work in a Mai Tai?

I made 2 (to start) Mai Tais, exactly the same except for the curaçao. Mai Tai recipes are like opinions**, and here's the one I used tonight, knowing what I was trying to test (no need to go top shelf):

1 oz Appleton V/X
1 oz Saint James Royal Ambre
3/4 oz lime juice
1/2 oz curaçao
1/2 oz homemade orgeat
1/4 oz simply syrup (approximately 1.5-1)

Shake with ice, strain into a double old-fashioned filled with crushed ice. Garnish with mint.

I made the 2 cocktails at the same time to compare them side-by-side.

Starting with the Senior, the aroma was primarily mint, as expected. The orange flavor was near the front, mixed with the agricole. The orgeat was very subtle and in the background. The cocktail was quite good, but with a thin mouthfeel. The Appleton faded into the background. I got the feeling as I tasted it that Senior Curaçao was made to mingle with more assertive rums.

The Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao Mai Tai had the same nose (mint garnish doing its job there) but right off the bat I thought this version was more boozy and the orange flavor was more subtle. This in turn allowed the distinct characteristics of the rums to stand out more. I sensed the Appleton this time, as opposed to the Senior version. The cocktail was better balanced overall, as the orange was dialed down. My conclusion was that depending on the rums selected for a Mai Tai, this may be a better choice, but not always. I thought that in the presence of a stronger pair of rums, the Senior would still stand out by virtue of holding its own via the stronger orange flavor. How would Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao fair against rums like Smith & Cross, JM, and Neisson?

Assumptions are bad. Almost as bad as a 3rd Mai Tai test on a Sunday night. So naturally I next tried a Mai Tai that used rums with a much stronger profile alongside the Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao. Recipe 3 swapped Smith & Cross in for the Appleton V/X and Rhum Barbancourt 8 year in place of the Saint James Royal Ambre. Right off the bat, the Smith & Cross stood alongside the mint and made itself known on aroma alone. This carried over to the first sip, where again the Smith & Cross asserted itself right up front. But it then gave way to the curaçao, orgeat, and lime. I was wrong about the Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao's ability to hold up to strong rums, it wasn't lost at all and again helped balance the overall cocktail. The finish was primarily Barbancourt, lingering a bit and leaving a warm impression. I'd make this version again (and again) am very interested to try it with some stronger agricoles.

I really like the Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao and plan to keep it in stock at home as much as possible.

kevin

• I'm not sure it's a direct comparison anyway, given that Creole Shrubb isn't, by definition, a curaçao product. But you can argue that either way I suppose.

** While the individual rums vary, I almost always base a Mai Tai with 1 oz Jamaican rum and I oz Martinique rum.

Interesting post! did you go to their session at the Tales last year when they distilled their dry curacao on stage?

I made an outstanding and very strong Mai Tai last night with Ferrand dry Curacao and 1 oz Caroni -97 single barrel rum and 1 oz Clèment VSOP. It was strong, rummy and oh so good on a sunday evening.-)

I'll never go back to anything else, to be frank.
I've had it with these combos:
Flora de Cana & Smith & Cross
Zaya & Ron Matusalem
Eldorado 12yr & Smith & Cross
Appleton Reserve & Coruba

And I have yet to be disappointed. I know this doesn't add much, but it's really worth checking out if you haven't already.

On 2013-03-11 05:45, Little fragrant Tiare wrote:
Interesting post! did you go to their session at the Tales last year when they distilled their dry curacao on stage?

I made an outstanding and very strong Mai Tai last night with Ferrand dry Curacao and 1 oz Caroni -97 single barrel rum and 1 oz Clèment VSOP. It was strong, rummy and oh so good on a sunday evening.-)

Thanks! I've never been to Tales, but I hope to go someday. July is the hardest time to chat with cocktail writers if you don't go to Tales...I always wish I was there. :)

I've used the Clement VSOP with Appleton 12 for a really good Mai Tai. I find VSOP is a less-assertive agricole, so there's a nice mellow balance to it.

kevin

So I've been going over this - specifically regarding curacao - and was thinking of a ranking in terms of overall quality (price excluded):

1. Senior Curacao of Curacao / Pierre Ferrand Dry Curacao (leaving up to preference)
2. Marie Brizard
3. BOLS
4. Hiram Walker
5. DeKuyper
6. Potter's
7. Mr. Stacks / Leroux

I typically opt for Hiram Walker or BOLS which is pretty middle of the road and inoffensive, but plan on getting some Senior Curacao in the near future. Unfortunately that damn bottle shape is really unfriendly for my bar cabinet.