Trader Sam's - Orlando

On 2015-04-20 14:06, kkocka wrote:

On 2015-04-17 12:05, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
To be honest, I want a few visits under my belt before I do that

Hm, are you sure you've had A visit? Nothing on twitter or Instagram despite the various other content you've shared since? I find that odd, especially coming from you. I just wanna make sure you actually went there, as opposed to your seemingly mislead thoughts on lighting and the mugs (the glass float thing had me, haha) and aren't stating opinion or speculations as facts.

Meanwhile, here's a few pics from my weeks-long spam. I won't post all, but since people wanted to see a few so here we go:

I want to experience it when it's running normally (AKA, not during this soft opening phase) before I chime in.

Well lucky for you your first visit to Grog Grotto likely won't be any different than how it's been during the soft opening, other than mug availability. Nothing to miss from not having been at the soft opening.

Epcot, you should post your review or thoughts on it as-is now, and then again after you've been several times beyond the soft opening, that way you can compare how they've improved.

On 2015-04-21 20:33, finky099 wrote:
Epcot, you should post your review or thoughts on it as-is now, and then again after you've been several times beyond the soft opening, that way you can compare how they've improved.

I'll probably do that, once I have the time.

Here's the thing. I got to see TSGG in an unorthodox way, I'm not at liberty to really get into it, and I'm eager to see it under show conditions. Can we leave it at that? Sorry I ruffled some feathers.

Follow me on Twitter and Instagram! @EPCOTExplorer

[ Edited by: EPCOTExplorer 2015-04-22 07:42 ]

On 2015-04-22 07:27, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
Here's the thing. I got to see TSGG in an unorthodox way, I'm not at liberty to really get into it, and I'm eager to see it under show conditions. Can we leave it at that? Sorry I ruffled some feathers.

Yeah, see, I don't quite buy that either. Even my cast member friends who worked on the place or on things related to that place were hardly let in but maybe two or three times at most before cast member test runs. You're saying somebody at WDI gave you a peek before it was up and running? Yeah yeah I know, you said an unorthodox way, but just tacking on another reason why people are calling you out on and offline alike.

For that matter, a handful of us on the boards got to see it in unorthodox ways too, but we can't get into it. Look there's no prize for having been there already and if you haven't been there that's cool too. It's not going anywhere, so there's no real bragging rights for having been there. I probably won't ever be able to visit there again, or not in many many years. I just have a problem with all this vagueness, all this mystery, the "online celebrity" thing. Hey, maybe I'm full of shit and I'm 100% wrong though. If that's the case then I unabashedly tip my hat.

On 2015-04-24 09:59, kkocka wrote:

On 2015-04-22 07:27, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
Here's the thing. I got to see TSGG in an unorthodox way, I'm not at liberty to really get into it, and I'm eager to see it under show conditions. Can we leave it at that? Sorry I ruffled some feathers.

Yeah, see, I don't quite buy that either. Even my cast member friends who worked on the place or on things related to that place were hardly let in but maybe two or three times at most before cast member test runs. You're saying somebody at WDI gave you a peek before it was up and running? Yeah yeah I know, you said an unorthodox way, but just tacking on another reason why people are calling you out on and offline alike.

For that matter, a handful of us on the boards got to see it in unorthodox ways too, but we can't get into it. Look there's no prize for having been there already and if you haven't been there that's cool too. It's not going anywhere, so there's no real bragging rights for having been there. I probably won't ever be able to visit there again, or not in many many years. I just have a problem with all this vagueness, all this mystery, the "online celebrity" thing. Hey, maybe I'm full of shit and I'm 100% wrong though. If that's the case then I unabashedly tip my hat.

Buy whatever you want to buy or not. Like I said, I'm not comfortable talking about what I saw and when I saw it out of courtesy for others. People can call me out all they want.... but, honestly, everyone I have encountered in this community has been pleasant.

I quite agree in that there's no prize with being there first and that there are no bragging rights. My comments were not meant to insinuate that there were.

ANYWAY, if we can move past all of this... Seems like waits have evened out to about an hour to get in. Crowds drop off around 9-10 and the place seems to get quiet after The Magic Kingdom usually closes for the night.

On one hand, I'm a little worried that it's not pulling people constantly... but I'm also pleased that TSGG will have its quieter times.

On 2015-04-24 18:28, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
On one hand, I'm a little worried that it's not pulling people constantly... but I'm also pleased that TSGG will have its quieter times.

Heh, I think the same is true for the hotel pool or the guest laundry. And it's also true for Sam's at Disneyland. I don't think this is an issue -- Grog Grotto is important icing on the resort cake. It's a valuable and crowd-pleasing amenity which was built not to be constantly mobbed but to quiet down at times and allow people to absorb it and relax and tell stories when they get back home.

So there we have it - I put Grog Grotto in the same category as a laundromat!

On 2015-04-24 19:38, AceExplorer wrote:

On 2015-04-24 18:28, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
On one hand, I'm a little worried that it's not pulling people constantly... but I'm also pleased that TSGG will have its quieter times.

-- Grog Grotto is important icing on the resort cake.

This is a really important point, now that the lobby waterfalls are gone. If there's a major draw for the resort these days, it's probably Sam's.

And Ohana, now that I think about it, too.

On 2015-04-24 19:49, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
[AceExplorer: Grog Grotto is important icing on the resort cake.]
This is a really important point, now that the lobby waterfalls are gone. If there's a major draw for the resort these days, it's probably Sam's.

And Ohana, now that I think about it, too.

I think I know what you mean. I try very hard not to overlook the Polynesian theming as a whole, and the sheer beauty of the entire resort, and how they work together to weave the fabric of the Polynesian Resort experience. To me Ohana, Grog Grotto, etc. are each an element of a greater combined experience and fabric. So I wouldn't put Grog Grotto on too high of a pedestal by calling it a major draw, because that is an injustice to the many other very good things at the resort.

In your private sneak-peaks, perhaps you got to speak to one of the Imagineers or show designers? They might have shared with you their vision for some guests (not all) to wander in and discover Sam's quite by accident. Can you imagine never having heard of Sam's, and suddenly becoming immersed in it and overtaken by it? This is why I see Sam's as icing for some -- and the cherry for others.

On 2015-04-24 20:38, AceExplorer wrote:

On 2015-04-24 19:49, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
[AceExplorer: Grog Grotto is important icing on the resort cake.]
This is a really important point, now that the lobby waterfalls are gone. If there's a major draw for the resort these days, it's probably Sam's.

And Ohana, now that I think about it, too.

I think I know what you mean. I try very hard not to overlook the Polynesian theming as a whole, and the sheer beauty of the entire resort, and how they work together to weave the fabric of the Polynesian Resort experience. To me Ohana, Grog Grotto, etc. are each an element of a greater combined experience and fabric. So I wouldn't put Grog Grotto on too high of a pedestal by calling it a major draw, because that is an injustice to the many other very good things at the resort.

In your private sneak-peaks, perhaps you got to speak to one of the Imagineers or show designers? They might have shared with you their vision for some guests (not all) to wander in and discover Sam's quite by accident. Can you imagine never having heard of Sam's, and suddenly becoming immersed in it and overtaken by it? This is why I see Sam's as icing for some -- and the cherry for others.

I don't disagree with that at all....evaluating how everything fits together is probably the most logical way for viewing Disney's parks and their resorts, too, I guess.

However, in the scheme of things, and how Disney has added to the place and what they're promoting? Sam's is probably going to take the lead.

On 2015-04-24 21:11, EPCOTExplorer wrote:
However, in the scheme of things, and how Disney has added to the place and what they're promoting? Sam's is probably going to take the lead.

To be very clear, I think that will only be true for the very young and for those with tunnel vision.

On 2015-04-24 20:38, AceExplorer wrote:
I think I know what you mean. I try very hard not to overlook the Polynesian theming as a whole, and the sheer beauty of the entire resort, and how they work together to weave the fabric of the Polynesian Resort experience. To me Ohana, Grog Grotto, etc. are each an element of a greater combined experience and fabric. So I wouldn't put Grog Grotto on too high of a pedestal by calling it a major draw, because that is an injustice to the many other very good things at the resort.

I'll just add to this thought that what got us spending a whole evening at the Polynesian on our honeymoon last year was the Spirit of Aloha show. We were staying at French Quarter but did the open-to-close at Animal Kingdom that day, then bused directly over to the Polynesian, wandered the grounds, roasted some marshmallows on the beach, found the lounge, and then took in the dinner show. Having Trader Sam's in addition to Spirit of Aloha (which we would do again) would have made it that much better.

As resorts that actually have stuff worth travelling to that resort to see and do, the Polynesian and Wilderness Lodge/Fort Wilderness are the best in my book. The lucky ducks staying at Wilderness Lodge could easily spend a whole day just around there without even needing to go to a theme park (I almost talked my wife into it, but we live in Calgary and work at a museum, so when she saw pictures she said it was just like being at home and vetoed the idea :) ).

This is what the Disney Parks Blog told us more than a month ago: "Official opening is set for late-April, when the coveted Tiki souvenir glassware arrives. (Tiki fans go bananas for the collectible mugs.) As soon as the official date is set, we will share on Disney Parks Blog." (At least they didn't say we "go ape" for mugs).

When I got a chance to interview the WDW beverage manager at the DVC opening on March 31, he said: "We hope to have the grand opening in late April. That's when the rest of our Grog Grotto souvenir vessels will arrive."

Well, here we are and not a word yet. I've received reports from friends who visited last Monday and were told that several mugs were no longer available for purchase. Then, last night, some other friends reported that they couldn't buy any of the mugs from Disneyland. Does this mean the new mugs are about to arrive? Will the "grand opening" be announced this week? I'm planning my return visit for early May, so I'm hoping for the best.

On 2015-04-25 22:34, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
This is what the Disney Parks Blog told us more than a month ago: "Official opening is set for late-April, when the coveted Tiki souvenir glassware arrives. (Tiki fans go bananas for the collectible mugs.) As soon as the official date is set, we will share on Disney Parks Blog." (At least they didn't say we "go ape" for mugs).

When I got a chance to interview the WDW beverage manager at the DVC opening on March 31, he said: "We hope to have the grand opening in late April. That's when the rest of our Grog Grotto souvenir vessels will arrive."

Well, here we are and not a word yet. I've received reports from friends who visited last Monday and were told that several mugs were no longer available for purchase. Then, last night, some other friends reported that they couldn't buy any of the mugs from Disneyland. Does this mean the new mugs are about to arrive? Will the "grand opening" be announced this week? I'm planning my return visit for early May, so I'm hoping for the best.

They've been mum on the blog for Sam's since that post. It's a little strange. Perhaps they're still waiting on the Nautilus.

I've heard rumors that an announcement is coming this week. We'll see ...

I just returned from a 10 day trip to Orlando. For 6 of those days I stayed at the Poly. This was my first opportunity to experience a Trader Sam's and my expectations were high. I was inside 3 nights and on the Terrace 5. First and foremost, the place is too small. I think Occupancy is 51 when 30 would be comfortable. Bar was too small and every time I was there half the people at the bar there were sipping on water. One of the things that makes a tiki bar great to me are the customers and the staff which were my biggest disappointment there.

The décor is great and the drinks ok. People are right about most the staff being annoying smartasses who are clueless about tiki. There was one older guy working who seemed to know a little but seemed annoyed more so then anything.

I actually enjoyed the chill atmosphere of the terrace and its staff and spent more time there. I also loved the live music outside. I wish they would do more of the trader sams décor on the terrace. If they did it would be more of a hit then inside. I think the staff and customers will improve with time especially come off peak. I do look forward to my next visit even though I was let down this time.

Mug shortages still existed.
As of 4/21
Uh-Oa! in stock
Zombie out
Krakatoa out (They had a box of 10 arrive Monday and they were gone by the end of the night)
Nautilus out
Mai Tai glass in stock
Rum flight mini mugs in stock
Plastic Pearls in stock (White Only still no black ones)

On 2015-04-26 14:31, Tiki Toli wrote:
This was my first opportunity to experience a Trader Sam's and my expectations were high. I was inside 3 nights and on the Terrace 5. First and foremost, the place is too small. I think Occupancy is 51 when 30 would be comfortable. Bar was too small and every time I was there half the people at the bar there were sipping on water. One of the things that makes a tiki bar great to me are the customers and the staff which were my biggest disappointment there.

I don't think you're wrong to have had high expectations - with all the hype building up to it, how could you not? I disagree with the size remark, given that I'm used to a much smaller Trader Sam's in California, but you bring up a good point about the bar: half the people at the bar were sipping on water. So CA has a smaller room, but many more seats at the bar whereas FL has vastly larger room yet half the amount of seats at the bar. That is a big problem to me, because not only do the few seats fill with lookyloos downing water, but there's no reserve of barflys to at least do the bartenders justice. Hopefully that changes in time as you mentioned, though from what I hear from my FL residents that may very well be the returning customer (college program kids, lifestylers, etc) and numerous venues are the WDW properties follow that similarity. But I agree wholeheartedly about your sentiment that the bar staff and customer relationship/interaction is key. I think about here in LA, how Tiki Ti has a handful of guys who have shown up at 4pm daily for decades straight.

I think these comments and observations are in line with what I said earlier -- that Sam's is "resort" tiki, and not "real" tiki in the traditional sense. The target audience is very different from what we expect and from what we are used to in other "real" tiki venues. This is also true, to some extent, for the drink menu.

It's definitely a fun place in its own way, and Sam's is undeniably a part of the broader tiki landscape on both US coasts. I like to remind folks that it is a gateway to more tiki experiences for those who will eventually come to see and recognize and embrace tiki in other places.

While a number of Disney's imagineers have an affinity for tiki, none set out to build a tiki bar as much as they set out to build a specific type of entertainment venue with their choice of backstories integrated into the concept. They did a great job, and we can look forward to refinements. I am taking the soft opening declaration seriously and am hoping we see adjustments to at least the bartender shtick.

I am very much in agreement that the patio area would benefit from more theming - that's a very good observation. Elements of the old Tahitian Terrace environment from Disneyland, for example, could really help that space. I'm again reminded that Trader Sam's East is still in its infancy and that Imagineering may not be finished with it yet. Give them some time, they're still busy fleshing out Disney Springs and Avatar Land, and both are very demanding projects.

Parks Blog just said that Sam's officially opens today. All mugs available. Nice timing. :wink:

http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2015/04/trader-sams-grog-grotto-officially-opens-today-at-disneys-polynesian-village-resort/

Yes, perfect timing!

I'm also hoping for more theming on the Tiki Terrace. One new addition is the lava rock waterfall that abuts the kids play area. Has anyone seen this?

New glaze for the krakatoa!

Red instead of orange and some black/grey in the tan. Interesting.

Any other mugs show up for sale? I was there last week and they only had mai tai and Oa.

They're all for sale now, though apparently they ran out of zombies a few days ago and are expecting them today - Joshua_W was there yesterday (not to steal his thunder) and probably again between now and Thursday. The Nautilus is going for a hefty price on eBay.

On 2015-04-29 10:26, kkocka wrote:
The Nautilus is going for a hefty price on eBay.

Ebay has several Nautilus listings for $120 to $155 for "buy it now." But auction prices start lower, between $30 to $50.

There is quite a bit of other Trader Sam's ephemera up for sale. Go-go-go free market! heh...

I am here right now. They have everything. Got one of each for my collection. Not a cheap way to stock you bar with cups.

What is the retail price for the Nautilus? Worth the trip just to get one of those while they are still in stock!

$52 buckaroos.

That is including the cocktail. Presumably you may also be able to buy them without the drink at a slightly reduced cost.

The only way to get the glasses is with the drink.

You can get the drink without the glasses at the reduced rate but not the other way around.

While sitting in the bar, they do serve all the drinks in the appropriate glass. If you are buying the drink with the glass, you get a separate receipt and pick up a brand new one as you leave.

I'm surprised they don't have the same policy as the original TS, I was picking up mugs for coworkers after lunch and it wasn't an issue to sell the mugs at a price sans cocktail.

It seems fucked up because it requires the purchase of an alcoholic beverage which shuts out an entire demographic of consumers by age alone.

On 2015-05-05 19:43, wizzard419 wrote:
...It seems fucked up because it requires the purchase of an alcoholic beverage which shuts out an entire demographic of consumers by age alone.

Dude, it's a BAR !! LOL :)

JOHN-O ftw

So Grog Grotto DOES serve the drinks in the respective mugs even if you AREN'T buying the mug? If so, thats great. It bugs me that the only way to have a drink served in a fun ceramic vessel is if you buy the mug (aside from the UhOa). I realize there's probably some space logistics at the Original Sam's causing that policy, but it really does add something extra to the experience.

I think it's a supply and demand thing for now, Ryan. Hopefully that changes in the future. If stock is low they'll serve in an older mug (Disneyland Hotel version) but give you the latest upon purchase.

I have been here for a week and have had several (or more) drinks every night.

1. They won't tell you what's in the Grog
2. They use BG Reynolds syrups
3. They don't squeeze their juices but do use "fresh" squeezed.
4. The rum selection is pretty weak
5. The bar/wait staff know nothing beyond the drinks on the menu or anything about tiki
6. IMO the outside patio with the live entertainment is better than inside and it does have a great view of the evening fireworks
7. Inside they only let people in for the number of seats they have, no standing room. Once you get in, its all communal, meaning, I waited all this time to have to find my own seats, hopefully there are a couple together.

On 2015-05-06 19:15, mmaurice wrote:
I have been here for a week and have had several (or more) drinks every night.

1. They won't tell you what's in the Grog
2. They use BG Reynolds syrups
3. They don't squeeze their juices but do use "fresh" squeezed.
4. The rum selection is pretty weak
5. The bar/wait staff know nothing beyond the drinks on the menu or anything about tiki
6. IMO the outside patio with the live entertainment is better than inside and it does have a great view of the evening fireworks
7. Inside they only let people in for the number of seats they have, no standing room. Once you get in, its all communal, meaning, I waited all this time to have to find my own seats, hopefully there are a couple together.

Hi, mmaurice, I have several slightly different thoughts on your comments, and definitely appreciate your perspective. I hope you don't mind me sharing some of my take on your observations.

1. Secret grog recipe: Their recipes are proprietary, and they paid consultants a lot to develop their drinks, so I'm not surprised that the Grog contents are kept secret. But if we give them some time, we may see that similar to Trader Sam's West with their holiday recipes (Red Nosed Zebra etc.) they may come to release some specialty recipes from Trader Sam's East but likely not any of their mainstay drinks. Watch for Hurricane Hayward to potentially share some tribute recipes with us in the future. Until then, just enjoy the grog when you're there.

2. Use of BG Reynolds syrups - I don't think you're complaining about that decision, as BG Reynolds is a good thing in the eyes of many. Thank the tiki gods that they are not using Finest Call or some other mass-produced products! (If they are, then I'm not sure I want to know... heh!)

3. Use of "fresh juices:" That's a good observation. Sam's is a high-volume operation and likely they don't have the time or the room to squeeze their juices on-the-spot. I think someone else posted here that they have their centralized kitchen/food prep facility squeezing juices for them. This is still better than you get at many of the bars around Disney, so this is not a negative to me even through fresh on-the-spot would be better.

4. Weak rum selection: They are using some very good, but not all top-shelf, rums. Their rum selection is certainly much better than at most of the bars around Disney, and this is unfortunately lost on perhaps 95+ percent of their customers. They seem to have hit the sweet spot they were aiming for. I think your observation is a broad generalization if you look at what they pour. I would definitely give them much more credit for what they are doing.

5. Bar and wait staff: I keep reminding myself that they are all working partly as entertainers in a resort bar. It may help to partially re-adjust your perspective on that basis. I know I have previously pointed out that Trader Sam's East is a resort bar. I really do try to be careful and take that into account when formulating my opinions. There is some good and some bad, but overall it's really great and fun, and I think you recognize that.

6. Inside vs Outside: Here I think it's very important to recognize that the patio is very mellow and relaxed, and the focus is on relaxing entertainment and the views which are really nice. Then we must recognize that the inside is comparatively very loud and high-energy and intended to be very entertaining. To me this is a really obvious observation when I'm there, kind of "night and day" really. I tell friends that I would take a conversational date or group of friends to the patio. And I would take my buddies and/or more "crazy" friends inside. But that's just me - I think that I differentiate pretty well between the two environments and what they present to their guests. They are two completely different experiences. (Watch the night-time fireworks from the patio to the LEFT of the entertainment, and sit along the rail or one table row inside!)

7. Indoor seating limit: I think this is actually an AWESOME aspect of Trader Sam's East and the experience in this place is really enhanced by this policy. Also, don't overlook that the communal seating offers quite a bit more mixing-and-mingling with other folks who are also looking to have fun and talk. But if you want to be seated at a certain table or spot in the bar, you can also walk up to people and politely ask them to notify you when they plan on leaving. The wait staff has also been willing to help with this if you ask them - they know when final bar tabs are prepared and can give you a heads-up if you have a favorite seating location which may be coming available. (Tip appropriately if they help you out.) I give Sam's East much higher marks than Sam's West for the "mixing-and-mingling" factor. I place a very high value on this aspect of the bar since I was a frequent visitor to the old "Big Bamboo Lounge" in Kissimmee which ranked very high in my guest mixing/mingling of all the bars I have ever been to in my life. (http://www.BigBambooLounge.com - the venue closed years ago due to hurricane damage, but their web site is still up and maintained by their die-hard webmaster for the cadre of die-hard fans. There are some threads here on TC about the 'Boo as well. Similar to Sam's grog, they also had a very-secret "Swamp Water" cocktail. This venue was visited by a number of Imagineers and Disney artists over the years when WDW was being constructed, and to a small extent seems to have influenced some of what we came to see in the Adventurers Club and both Trader Sam's locations.)

I know I may see a few things differently from you, but I hope you and others will find my comments and my perspective helpful. I tried to include a few small hints which can make your Sam's visit more special and more fun.

Cheers!

On 2015-05-06 19:15, mmaurice wrote:
I have been here for a week and have had several (or more) drinks every night.

1. They won't tell you what's in the Grog
2. They use BG Reynolds syrups
3. They don't squeeze their juices but do use "fresh" squeezed.
4. The rum selection is pretty weak
5. The bar/wait staff know nothing beyond the drinks on the menu or anything about tiki
6. IMO the outside patio with the live entertainment is better than inside and it does have a great view of the evening fireworks
7. Inside they only let people in for the number of seats they have, no standing room. Once you get in, its all communal, meaning, I waited all this time to have to find my own seats, hopefully there are a couple together.

I agree with everything you said

FYI there are two "proprietary" juices used in some of the drinks:

POG (passion-orange-guava), which is also used in the Tambu Lounge (Backscratcher) and elsewhere. The commercial product is actually hard to find, but you can make your own pretty easy. I have a recipe up here:
http://www.slammie.com/atomicgrog/blog/2013/07/31/trader-sams-enchanted-tiki-bar-one-of-many-changes-likely-coming-to-disneys-polynesian-resort/#backscratcher

GROG is the new mix that started at Trader Sam's in Disneyland. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the consensus is that it's probably grapefruit, orange and guava. I'll have to play around with it to determine the exact proportions.

I'm a fan of B.G. Reyolds, so that's definitely not a bad thing. I believe they use the falernum, cinnamon and orgeat syrups. You can't expect a bar like Trader Sam's to make its own syrups, or squeeze its own juice for that matter. Even The Mai-Kai contracts to have its fresh juices provided to them by an outside vendor.

While the rum selection could be better in spots, overall it's a big step up from the rest of the World, where you'll probably only find Bacardi silver and Myers's. So some slack should be cut here. And it won't be too difficult to upgrade later. Perhaps a new rum flight (but keep the Zacapa).

I'm not a fan of communal seating, but I think they did the best with what they had here. It's a very small space, and I too appreciate not having a bunch of people standing around.

And to the earlier comment about not being able to buy the mugs without buying the drink: I think the current system is great. I always like to drink out of a mug before buying it. And it ensures that hopefully more true fans get the mugs (for the most part), not people just looking to turn them around on eBay for a profit. That's gonna happen anyway, but why encourage it?

All the new mugs were available last weekend. I've got a pretty hefty review of the food and drinks in the works that I'll be posting here shortly.

Aloha!

That reminds me - POG is available to guests from a self-serve tap, and it's unlimited, in the concierge-level lounge in at least one of the longhouses.

On 2015-05-07 12:43, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
GROG is the new mix that started at Trader Sam's in Disneyland. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the consensus is that it's probably grapefruit, orange and guava. I'll have to play around with it to determine the exact proportions.

See below.

On 2015-05-07 12:43, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
I'm a fan of B.G. Reyolds, so that's definitely not a bad thing. I believe they use the falernum, cinnamon and orgeat syrups. You can't expect a bar like Trader Sam's to make its own syrups, or squeeze its own juice for that matter.

Again, related to what I say below, Sam's in CA have been making certain syrups of their own such as ginger syrup. If you have the staff that lives the Tiki scene, it can definitely happen. In addition to the cinnamon, falernum, and orgeat, I believe Sam's is also using the Hibiscus Grenadine. That's probably the one you could substitute and receive the least amount of change to your drink.

On 2015-05-06 19:15, mmaurice wrote:
I have been here for a week and have had several (or more) drinks every night.

1. They won't tell you what's in the Grog
2. They use BG Reynolds syrups
3. They don't squeeze their juices but do use "fresh" squeezed.
4. The rum selection is pretty weak
5. The bar/wait staff know nothing beyond the drinks on the menu or anything about tiki
6. IMO the outside patio with the live entertainment is better than inside and it does have a great view of the evening fireworks
7. Inside they only let people in for the number of seats they have, no standing room. Once you get in, its all communal, meaning, I waited all this time to have to find my own seats, hopefully there are a couple together.

1. Gorilla Grog is pretty much POG juice + pineapple juice + lemon juice + falernum + something else that I can't recall and don't know. Saw it listed online, though the exact ingredients and amounts are unknown. Basically I make a small batch at home with even parts of pog and pineapple, then one part lemon, and sorta throw some falernum in at whatever my judgement is at the time. I've done just half pog and half pineapple and it was good enough for me in a quick fix. Try it and lemme know what you think.

2. They primarily use BG Reynolds, but for the common drinks (off menu/common bar drinks) they tend to use Finest Call, Monin, etc. This is just my assumption based on what they do in CA.

3. Yeah nothing is actually fresh squeezed on site, but I've seen giant gallons of Odwalla lime before.

4 & 5. The rum selection definitely is stronger in CA - they have Smith & Cross, Zaya, Cruzan Single Barrel, and some others currently. This is absolutely due to the staff who is very much into the scene and into craft cocktails (unlike #5). They've made a push for products because they're often the right tool for the job, and I believe are behind the push to replace Bacardi 151 with Gosling's 151. But, keep in mind that the change is also largely in part because of the benefit of time. They weren't acting as independent right off the bat: there were lots of battles and slow ground gain.

I'm back from my second visit to the Grog Grotto on May 2-3, the first being back on March 31 when it first opened. My review of that visit is a few pages back on this thread:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=44996&forum=1&start=360

There will be a full, measured review of the food and drinks on The Atomic Grog, but that may take a few weeks since I've got lots of other stories in the works. So I thought I'd share a rough draft and some quick impressions. I'll also include info on the logistics and how I dealt with getting seats in the bar, which may help those visiting in the coming weeks. It's only going to get worse during the busy summer season.

I was actually planning on hanging out on the Tiki Terrace on Saturday night but couldn't find any empty tables shortly after it opened at 4. Beware that the patio fills up fast now, especially on weekends. It's first-come, first-served, so I would advise getting there before 4 if you're planning an early visit. They don't take your name, so you're forced to wait or keep checking back for seats. My wife and I were meeting up with two other couples and had a party of six. Most of the tables are for four, which is another issue to consider. They do allow you to walk up to the service bar and order, so you could grab a drink and hang out for a while until a table opens.

A view of the beach from the boat dock.

By this time, it was 4:30 and we wanted to sit and talk, so we headed up to the Tambu Lounge. On the way, I grabbed a pager from the door staff at the Grog Grotto and was told there was a 1-2 hour wait. When I walked by there an hour later, I overheard them telling people three hours. I assume you'll need to get there at least an hour in advance to be one of the first 50 to enter, at least on the weekends. We were in no rush, so I enjoyed a Backscratcher at the Tambu, though it too was pretty crowded at this hour with the dinner crowd for 'Ohana starting to gather. (It opens at 1 if you want to get an earlier start.) We found some chairs and couches in the waiting area and were able to have our meet-up and hang our for an hour or so.

Our party shrunk to four, so we checked the Terrace again. Still no seats. So we moved on to Plan C. We headed out to the boat dock and grabbed some drinks at the pool bar along the way. The weather was great, so this was another pleasant way to spend the wait for our pager to go off. Though the pool is now gated for resort guests only, there's a bar area (with seats) outside the gate on the marina side. We were the only ones there, and we also had the dock pretty much to ourselves with great views and a nice breeze. So the wait for the Grog Grotto definitely does not suck. Even the pool bar's standard Mai Tai seemed decent enough.

After about two hours of waiting, our pager went off. We were lucky enough to grab the round table in the left corner as you walk in, next to the lighted shadow box and Nautilus painting. This is one of the best tables, IMHO. It's away from the hubbub yet also affords views of everything. The Uh-Oa! was a surprise favorite. Even Mrs. Hurricane enjoyed it, and she's hard to please. I also had a Castaway Crush (only get this if you like cachaca) and she had a very well-made Dark & Tropical Stormy, another one of her favorites. I also tasted our friends' Zombie and Mosquito Mojito, which was very light. This is for newbies only.

Hey, I know that guy.

We had the chicken lettuce cups, which were a bit on the bland side but fresh and serviceable. The Headhunter Sushi Roll was the best of the sushi dishes with a tasty sauce elevating it. Saturday was the better of the two nights service-wise. Our "skipper," Natali, was the best I've encountered so far. She was attentive, knowledgeable and didn't over-do the schtick. The crowd was also mellow, which seemed to keep the antics throughout the room to a minimum. You do get a different experience at a table with a server than you do sitting at the bar, which we did in March. My skippers during that visit (Adam and Chris) were fine, but because they're also making drinks and dealing with servers and other issues, they have lots of distractions. I would tend to cut these guys a little slack if they don't give you their undivided attention. There's no such excuse for the servers.

The Mrs. and I returned on Sunday night and met up with AceExplorer and his better half. I think he got in shortly after opening, but we had a 30-minute wait around 8 p.m., which wasn't bad at all. Note: Off nights are much shorter waits, at least for the time being. There were again no seats in the Tiki Terrace, however, so we just killed time in the lobby and Boutiki, where I grabbed a Grog Grotto T-shirt. They were out of the Aloha shirts and pins.

Oddly, it was much rowdier inside the bar on Sunday (more locals and cast members?), and the skippers were also a bit amped up. But it didn't affect our experience too much since everyone seemed to be into it. The show they all put on for the Nautilus was amusing. We sat at the surfboard table with a larger group while we waited for a table for four to open. This is not a bad spot if you're not shy about meeting new people. The service from Skipper Kory was quick and professional, and the views from that table are among the best.

The view from the seats under Uh-Oa!

I had the Tahitian Torch (very tart and sweet, but also balanced and refreshing) and Mrs. Hurricane had Rosita's Margarita, which wasn't her favorite but it was drinkable. It has a heavy tequila and falernum taste, which I thought was distinctive. The Salmon Oshizushi was decent, but not as good as the roll from the previous night. A bit on the bland side. But the Pan-Fried Dumplings were much better than our initial visit in March. They were a lot crispier and the sauce seemed a bit tangier.

We moved over to the small table directly under Uh-Oa! for our final drinks. It's not the best seat in the house, but I like the view you get of the entire room. The Kahlua Pork Tacos were another dish that seemed better than our initial tasting. The bread was crispier and the meat seamed to be more seasoned. Perhaps the chef has worked with the staff to improve the execution since the opening. The drinks were also pretty much on-point. Though I did taste a HippopotoMai-Tai that AceExplorer ordered that seemed out of whack. Too much Bols curacao? It's not the best brand anyway, so it needs to be precise.

We ended the night with the last drink that I had yet to try, the mighty Nautilus (mahalo to AceExplorer for helping out!). Did I save the best for last? It was definitely a surprise, ranking right up there with the Uh-Oa! It certainly helps redeem the list of drinks specific to the Grog Grotto. This one must have been farmed out to an expert outside the Disney beverage department. It's reminiscent of a classic Tiki bowl, with nice balance and many flavors at play. I could taste the Appleton and Barbancourt rums, the peach liqueur, falernum and probably lime juice. It reminds me just a bit of a Three Dots and a Dash.

The new Zombie mug.

I've only had three visits, so my experience is anecdotal, but I get the feeling that food and drinks have improved slightly over time as the recipes are fine-tuned and the staff perfects their execution. As for the much-discussed performance of the skippers, it's really going to depend on who's working that night unfortunately. After our great experience Saturday, it looked like almost a completely different crew on Sunday and we encountered one of the more brash skippers (to put it politely) for our final order. It seems like there needs to be a lot more consistency with these cast members, particularly the ones working the floor.

But I'm trying to keep in mind that this is supposed to be a fun place that doesn't take itself too seriously. It's not intended to be a craft cocktail bar by any means. I'm not going to make any sweeping statements nor compare it to the original at Disneyland. I've not yet been there, so that would be impossible anyway. But I'll happily review the food and drinks.

Here, then, is my first rating of all the Trader Sam's Grog Grotto cocktails based on one or two tastes of each. I'd rather wait and conduct further research, but it may be months until I return and I thought this might be helpful for those who only have one chance to visit and need some guidance. As usual, it's based on my personal taste, but I also took into account Mrs. Hurricane's input as well as some of those whom I drank with. I consider taste, originality, complexity, presentation and other criteria. It's the same rating system I use for anything I taste: A 1-5 scale that can just be doubled to fit into a 1-10 scale like The Grogalizer. So, subject to later updates, here we go ...

Our skipper lights the Uh-Oa!

TRADER SAM'S GROG GROTTO COCKTAIL RATINGS
By Hurricane Hayward, March-May, 2015

Rating: 4.0

1. Uh-Oa!
2. Nautilus
3. Shrunken Zombie Head

Notes: These are all very good and heartily recommended. All of them pack a punch, rare for a Disney cocktail, and also have fine balance and quality ingredients. It doesn't hurt that these are also the three best mugs available, and they also come with a show.

Rating: 3.5
4. HippopotoMai-Tai
5. Dark & Tropical Stormy
6. Polynesian Pearl

Notes: The Mai Tai and Dark & Stormy both follow the classic recipes, so no originality here. But they're both well-done and worth trying. The Pearl is by no means a classic cocktail, but it's original and has some nice exotic flavors. Folks who like creamy drinks will enjoy it. Note that the Mai Tai and Pearl also trigger special effects.

Rating: 3.0
7. Tiki Tiki Tiki Tiki Tiki Rum
8. Tahitian Torch
9. Rosita's Margarita
10. Castaway Crush

Notes: These are all solid baseline drinks. Nothing special, but they may appeal to specific tastes. Tiki Tiki Tiki Tiki Tiki Rum is a poor man's Painkiller. The Torch is sweet, tart and not too heavy on the booze. And the Margarita and Crush should please those who like tequila and cachaca.

Rating: 2.5
11. Krakatoa Punch
12. Mosquito Mojito

Notes: I'd like to give the Krakatoa an incomplete rather than a low rating, but the one I tasted was way too sweet and out of balance. It's a shame since it triggers one of the better special effects. I'll definitely try this again to see if it improves. The light Mojito is OK, just not substantial enough to be rated any higher.

Not rated: Spikey Pineapple (available on the Tahitian Terrace only). I'd consider this Dole Whip spiked with Barbancourt Pang Rhum more of a dessert than a cocktail. I'll be trying it in the future, and I'd expect it to be somewhere at the bottom of the top 10.

Recommended small plates: Headhunter Sushi Roll, Kahlua Pork Tacos, Pan-Fried Dumplings. Also worth your time: Roasted Chicken Pork Pate Banh Mi Sliders, Corn-Battered Portuguese Sausages. Not impressed by: The bland Chicken Lettuce Cups and Salmon Oshizushi. Not yet tried: Hawaiian Poke.

I hope these tips will keep some potential guests from surviving the jungle and not losing their heads. Okole maluna!

A little nightcap: The Nautilus.

The Week in Tiki * Mai-Kai Cocktail Guide

The official blog of The Hukilau

[ Edited by: Hurricane Hayward 2015-05-08 01:25 ]

They are definitely still tweaking the drinks and the staff.

I was sitting at the table to right of the bar two days ago, around 5pm, where the staff picks up drinks and there were 2 Disney crew and another guy looking at couple different drinks talking about how to pack the crushed ice and then about the decision to switch from one juice company to another. So definitely still working on it.

Regarding the BG syrups, I am in total agreement, this is a great choice. If you go to the other bars they are using Monin or in some cases, something cheaper. I was actually surprised to see them using something so craft. Hopefully the BG Reynolds folks can keep up with demand.

Regarding the consistency of the drinks, they are mass production so there is limited measuring of the ingredients when added, especially the juices. They are more of a 1 count here, 2 count here than actual measurements so I am sure you could see some inconsistency from drink-to-drink.

Now it is definitely not Tiki but worth checking out. On the property and not too far from the Polynesian is the Four Seasons. Walked around the property and all I can say is wow. My wife told me she booked the Poly so we could try it and be close to everything but the FS was the same price. We both said, darn, should have stayed here. Ate and drank at the bar at Capa on the 17th floor. They had some awesome drinks on the menu, Hurricane and a Zacapa 23yr Old Fashion. They also have house made Orgeat which they do an Almond Sour with but also made a Mai Tai true to recipe (Smith & Cross along with Myers) with a lime half and mint in the glass. Again, not Tiki but defiantly worth trying, and heck the drinks were nearly the same price.

Forgot to mention about the POG. Interestingly Minute Maid packages the POG in concentrate 1/2 gallons specifically for Disney to be used at the Poly and Aulani. According to the bar tender it is only sold to Disney.

On 2015-05-07 14:08, kkocka wrote:

1. Gorilla Grog is pretty much POG juice + pineapple juice + lemon juice + falernum + something else that I can't recall and don't know.

I can support that there is Falernum in Gorilla Grog as it gives me a stomach ache that is exactly like what Falernum gives me.

mmaurice: The B.G. Reynolds syrups are a carry-over from Trader Sam's in Disneyland. They need them to make many of the drinks that came from that menu. I just wish they would embrace bitters just the same. You really need them for balance in the best Tiki cocktails.

If you go up to the Tambu Lounge, you'll see them pour out of the half-gallon Minute Maid containers of POG. Though POG is rare on the East Coast, I've heard it's not hard to find in California and, of course, Hawaii. I talk about that in more depth on my blog that features the Backscratcher recipe (link above).

You're absolutely right about the consistency issue as a result of free-pouring. I kept an eye on the bartenders (sorry, I mean skippers) when I was seated at the bar, and there's some effort made to be exact with the syrups and ingredients used in small amounts, but not so much with the juices. But the Disney beverage department runs a tight ship, so I'm sure they'll try to avoid over-pouring of spirits. I was at one bar before opening recently and witnessed the bartender being tested by a supervisor on his pouring and counting skills.

It's good to hear about the bar at the Four Seasons. It's pretty new, so I don't think a lot of folks are aware of it yet, but it's definitely now on my radar. I also need to get over to the bar at Todd English's Bluezoo at the Dolphin resort, which is reputed to have the best cocktails on property. Also highly recommend is the Top of the World Lounge at the Contemporary Resort's Bay Lake Tower, but you need to be a DVC member to get in there. Just off property in the Bonnet Creek area, the Waldorf Astoria is said to have an excellent cocktail program.

On WDW property, you never know where you're going to find good spirits. My favorite secret spot is L'Artisan des Glaces in the France pavilion at Epcot, where you can get a shot of Rhum Clement VSOP on your ice cream martini. As for the WDW bars, I think they generally get a bad rap. There are more than 70 bars and lounges in the parks and resorts. Like Trader Sam's, a lot of attention is paid to theming and presentation while the drinks suffer just a bit from homogenization, but you have to know where to go to get the perfect mix of drinks and decor.

Not to get too far off topic, but a quick list of my favorite spots to relax with a cocktail when I'm not at the Poly would include Mizner's at the Grand Floridan, the Wave and California Grill at the Contemporary, Territory Lounge at the Wilderness Lodge, Crew's Cup at the Yacht Club, Belle Vue Lounge at the Boardwalk, Victoria Falls and Sanaa at Animal Kingdom Lodge, and Raglan Road at Downtown Disney. In the parks, options are more limited, but I enjoy the Tune-In Lounge and Brown Derby Lounge in Hollywood Studios, Yak and Yeti and Dawa Bar in Animal Kingdom, and three of the four full-service bars in Epcot's World Showcase (La Cava del Tequila in Mexico, the Rose and Crown in the UK, and Tutto Gusto in Italy).

Now, before someone comes looking for my head, let's get back to Trader Sam's talk ...

[ Edited by: Hurricane Hayward 2015-05-09 09:55 ]

The current (May 12, 2015) issue of the AllEars® Weekly Newsletter has a discussion about kids and age limits at bars on Disney property. Trader Sam's East is mentioned. The article doesn't come down on any one side, and it does highlight that there are many differing points of view, opinions, and feelings on the matter.

The URL to the feature article is http://allears.net/ae/issue816.htm.