A comparison of different falernums.

Hi all

Comparing all the available falernums has been an aim of mine but I need to cast the net TCward for help.

Arguably the Falernum market is dominated by Taylors Velvet falernum & Fee Brothers falernum - IMO both are good but very different products.

IMO there is real value in comparing the two products: they are very different & can change a drink.

Here's my 2 cents on comparing the two brands:

• Taylor's is like a clove syrup with less lime & ginger than Fee Brothers. When you open a bottle it is quite potent but if it is left open a little while it becomes subtler (I think this is preferable). It brings something to multi ingredient drinks & can be more refined but can also fall flat.

• Fee Brothers is intense & sweet with goodness knows what flavours (like, ginger, almond, etc etc) going on - a 1/4 oz can be quite prevalent. If Taylors can be more refined, Fee Brothers can bring the party.

What other brands of falernum have TCers tried & how do they compare to these two benchmarks?

Another brand I have tried is Bitter Truth's falernum.

It's thin, less sweet & very gingery. If you are using falernum as a sweetener (eg in Corn & Oil), you'll need to add sugar syrup as well. It's also quite strong - it's so different it's not comparable to Taylors or Fees, I'd even go so far to use it in place of a ginger liqueur (or a ginger liqueur in place of it).

It's not one Id recommend (unless you want a ginger liqueur).

I hear Monin have started producing a falernum syrup.

IMO Monin passionfruit / orgeat / vanilla are overly sweet & a bit synthetic but I rate their gomme (sugar syrup) & cannelle (cinnamon) are great products - solid hits & near misses. My interest is piqued.

Anyone tried it?

I won't be able to help you with a comparison because once I started making home-made Falernum I never wanted to go back to ANY bottled product.

Making Falernum takes a couple of hours, but it's fun and I mostly do it with a friend. We make our own batches side-by-side. It lasts a long time (freeze your excess!) and is truly "fresh." I'm so happy with it that I really never need to go back to bottled stuff.

Taylor's, from my recollection, was weak and sugar-syrupy. I really disliked it because it had a very small flavor compared to home-made Falernum, and came across as wasted money in light of how wimpy it tasted. It was "pretend Falernum." A Falernum wannabe.

So that this post is not a complete waste of electrons, I would suggest making a batch yourself and then sharing your thoughts on how it compares to your bottled Falernums. I expect Fee Brothers to rank quite high, since so many speak very highly of it. But I'd enjoy reading your impressions.

The last time I was at Frankie's Tiki Room in Las Vegas the bartender told me that he makes his own by hand. (Can't remember if he was talking about just himself, or about ALL falernum at Frankie's.) So my thinking is that if a professional bar makes their own falernum, then there may be a strong reason that homemade is preferred.

On 2015-10-06 13:34, AceExplorer wrote:
Taylor's, from my recollection, was weak and sugar-syrupy. I really disliked it because it had a very small flavor compared to home-made Falernum, and came across as wasted money in light of how wimpy it tasted. It was "pretend Falernum." A Falernum wannabe.

...I would suggest making a batch yourself and then sharing your thoughts on how it compares to your bottled Falernums. I expect Fee Brothers to rank quite high, since so many speak very highly of it. But I'd enjoy reading your impressions.

A bit of back story:

Yep, I've made falernum at home - it's good but variable over time (ie it lost something). Definitely 'brighter' than Taylors when freshly made.

Falernum isn't actually something I was using a lot of so I found that when I made a batch I'd be trying to 'drink it up' before it went 'less fresh'. So I although I occasionally made fresh, I stuck with Taylors for 'in the cupboard'.

I was happy with Taylors 'in the cupboard' til I discovered Fees. I think it kicks a lot of drinks up a notch. It's definitely the one to use in Mai Kai recipes (& they have made up a good part of my repertoire in the last little while).

I've tried a few methods of making a 'Fees' style falernum but couldn't get the intestity up enough so I just restocked Fees - now I have both on hand & Im happy to use bottled products over homemade.

Truth be told I'm using Fees a lot more than Taylors, but that doesn't mean Taylors doesn't have a place in some drinks.

For example IMO:

• in Three Dots & Dash I use Taylors, Fees is more dominant but also lessened the agricole flavour (which was a shame).

• in the Captains Grog Fees makes it too sweet & intense for me so use Taylors (the other ingredients provide the depth).

• in the Mai Kai recipes, Fees adds intensity & sweetness, Taylors doesn't cut it.

• in the South Pacific Punch (from the Tiki+ app), Fees sings, Taylors falls flat.

I made my own for a bit, and certainly you won't compare home made to bottled and think bottled is better. But I stopped making it and never make it any more. It simply ruins cocktails. These recipes were created using bottled Falernum and substituting your home made will mean usually the drink now tastes like your falernum.

I'm sure you can dial in the recipe with your falernum and make something great, but I prefer to reach for the bottle I know is going to make the recipe the way I expect it and the way it was originated.

That and it is a lot of trouble to do and doen't have a good shelf life, etc.

I use Velvet Falernum, but just got a Bitter Truth because they were out of the other. I'll so how off it is in a bit I guess, or dodge that bullet thanks to this post!

On 2015-10-07 06:27, Swanky wrote:
I'm sure you can dial in the recipe with your falernum and make something great, but I prefer to reach for the bottle I know is going to make the recipe the way I expect it and the way it was originated.

Thanks, Swanky. Three follow-up thoughts and questions:

1. I may be misunderstanding you - I'd like to know more about your thoughts on "how drinks were originated" with bottled falernums, I'm not sure that's what you meant. My understanding is that at the time our tropical cocktails were developed, it was often done with falernums that were made from scratch, and that this was a more common practice than today. Do you think there were a number of bottled falernums available to Vic Bergeron, Donn Beach, and others of the times?

2. Taylor's bottled Falernum is weak, and from my experience, it had little influence in a drink and I will never buy it again. Its shortcoming is responsible for me making Falernum at home. I know Reynolds is highly rated, but it is only available to me by mail order. I don't have it, and it may be great stuff. You have a lot of experience, and I'd like to hear if you think Reynolds compares well to home-made My homemade, no matter when and where I use it, adds a pleasant "layer" among the other layers in a well-balanced cocktail and does not overpower drinks. I make Kaiser Penguin's Falernum #8 because I don't think Falernum #9 is a major improvement.

3. Making Falernum is not a bad deal if you have a microplane grater for zesting limes and take a few minutes to learn to use it well. Making Falernum is a fun way to spend an evening at your bar or in your kitchen with a friend. Cocktail folks work in creative ways, making syrups is something I associate with that. It seems to lend more "authenticity" to tropical mixology, and I find this to be a very enjoyable aspect of tropical cocktail mixology.

I don't strive to be a Falernum evangelist at all. I'm just not sure how to react to comments against using homemade Falernum. When I first got involved in the tropical cocktail and tiki scene, I had opportunities to speak with a number of authors and speakers at tiki events and ask detailed questions. I recall they all spoke highly of homemade, except when you're in a hurry or are serving a large number of guests in a short period of time. This was before Reynolds was selling theirs, so if it's really better than sliced bread, I will have to get some.

Making this post made a boring meeting at work much more tolerable.

To clarify one thing, I know Reynold's and Fees are both highly rated, and my posts didn't acknowledge this. I have not tried either, except in cocktails at bars, therefore my curiosity in comparing those to homemade.

I suspect that both Reynold's and Fees use techniques to accent several of the flavors --- it's all in how you process the raw ingredients. For example, ginger can be cut and slivered many different ways, even grated, and it has a major impact on how much the component is allowed to influence the syrup. Same with how you process your cloves - you can pre-soak your cloves ahead of the other ingredients in the overproof rum if you want a greater ginger component.

I enjoy all the input and sharing here. I'm not trying to twist anyone's arm, but am just thinking out loud and continuing my learning here. You are all helping me think of more things to test in my bar.

Tiki Central is cheap therapy for what ails you.

I'm another one that was underwhelmed by Taylor's and tends to stick with homemade. I'd like to pick up a bottle of Fee's or Reynold's to play around with and compare, but I'm very content with homemade. This is particularly true for Corn 'n Oils where I use a 1:1 rum to falernum ratio and so the falernum you use has to be up to the task.

Ace, I have a couple thoughts on some of your thoughts on Swanky's thoughts ...

On 2015-10-07 07:11, AceExplorer wrote:

On 2015-10-07 06:27, Swanky wrote:
I'm sure you can dial in the recipe with your falernum and make something great, but I prefer to reach for the bottle I know is going to make the recipe the way I expect it and the way it was originated.

Thanks, Swanky. Three follow-up thoughts and questions:

1. I may be misunderstanding you - I'd like to know more about your thoughts on "how drinks were originated" with bottled falernums, I'm not sure that's what you meant. My understanding is that at the time our tropical cocktails were developed, it was often done with falernums that were made from scratch, and that this was a more common practice than today. Do you think there were a number of bottled falernums available to Vic Bergeron, Donn Beach, and others of the times?

• In the case of my home bar (which usually serves only me), some of the most commonly made drinks were, in fact, developed during the recent tiki resurgence. So bottled Falernum has been available, and the versions I fell in love with in local bars usually used Taylor's. So that's the flavor I expect when I think of Falernum, and I do actually love that flavor. I like the subtlety of the spice with the light floral note of the lime. Even for the older (Donn's and Vic's) recipes, they likely made the syrup in their restaurant kitchens the same way day after day in large batches so it was always consistent. I equate that more with bottled, rather than homemade, even though they're made from scratch.

2. Taylor's bottled Falernum is weak, and from my experience, it had little influence in a drink and I will never buy it again. Its shortcoming is responsible for me making Falernum at home. I know Reynolds is highly rated, but it is only available to me by mail order. I don't have it, and it may be great stuff. You have a lot of experience, and I'd like to hear if you think Reynolds compares well to home-made My homemade, no matter when and where I use it, adds a pleasant "layer" among the other layers in a well-balanced cocktail and does not overpower drinks. I make Kaiser Penguin's Falernum #8 because I don't think Falernum #9 is a major improvement.

• As I mention above, Taylor's is what is usually used in the versions of these drinks that I love. And I'm talking about high-quality tiki bars in California, not just some tacky hole-in-the-wall joint. I haven't tried the other bottled Falernum's, but one new bar (here on the east coast) is attempting to make their own Falernum and the clove is terribly overpowering. I don't know what recipe they're using, but I did get them to cut back on the clove/allspice. Unfortunately, it still tastes like allspice dram or clove syrup. It's missing the delicate balance of flavors I equate to a good falernum.

3. Making Falernum is not a bad deal if you have a microplane grater for zesting limes and take a few minutes to learn to use it well. Making Falernum is a fun way to spend an evening at your bar or in your kitchen with a friend. Cocktail folks work in creative ways, making syrups is something I associate with that. It seems to lend more "authenticity" to tropical mixology, and I find this to be a very enjoyable aspect of tropical cocktail mixology.

• I used to make my own ginger syrup since I used it in most of my own recipes. Since I rarely have guests, it usually went bad before I could use it all, and it was a hassle. Falernum is an even bigger hassle than ginger syrup, and one I'm not willing to go through just to make a few drinks a week for myself, or even for the rare party, when there is a perfectly good bottled version available. I don't think that makes me any less a "cocktail folk," just one who prefers consistency of flavor to the hands-on approach of slaving away over one ingredient. I'd rather spend that time drinking the cocktail, or chatting with my guests on the rare occasion that I have them.

I don't strive to be a Falernum evangelist at all. I'm just not sure how to react to comments against using homemade Falernum. When I first got involved in the tropical cocktail and tiki scene, I had opportunities to speak with a number of authors and speakers at tiki events and ask detailed questions. I recall they all spoke highly of homemade, except when you're in a hurry or are serving a large number of guests in a short period of time. This was before Reynolds was selling theirs, so if it's really better than sliced bread, I will have to get some.

---

Making this post made a boring meeting at work much more tolerable.

BG Reynolds' falernum to me is king. I use John Taylor's Velvet Falernum typically only because it's inexpensive, large in quantity, and convenient, but I'm not a fan really. A bit sweet and lacking in the spice that I love so much with BG Reynolds'. I've been thinking about making my own falernum (just starting w/the recipe provided in Remixed) though I wonder how that compares to the brand I love so much.

Follow me on Instagram
http://www.instagram.com/keithkocka

[ Edited by: kkocka 2015-10-07 11:32 ]

We did mention Reynolds, it was buried in some lengthier posts along with Fee Bros.

I have never enjoyed Taylors. I cannot taste any flavors in it and I think tap water would be a good substitute if you run out.

I make my own. As soon as I started and tasted it, I knew I would always make my own. Falernum is one of my favorite flavors in many tiki drinks, and I think a good hand made Falernum will make a drink or recipe.

When I go to bars and order drinks with Falernum, I can tell if it is made by hand or store bought. Many of the craft bars around my house wouldn't be caught dead with store bought Falernum, and I know it is handmade Falernum at Three Dots & a Dash that make their Three Dots drink taste so good.

I have only tried BG in a couple bars, but I liked the look and smell. I think it would easily beat the velvet for me.

"Questions of provenance aside, we've found that Fee Brothers works best in vintage tropical drinks."

• Jeff "Beachbum" Berry
  Beachbum Berry Remixed, 2010

Does anyone know what he's using at Latitude 29?

I was at Latitude 29 6 months ago. I thought the Falernum was house made but I am not 100%.

On 2015-10-07 17:14, lunavideogames wrote:
I was at Latitude 29 6 months ago. I thought the Falernum was house made but I am not 100%.

I'm also thinking it's probably house made.

On 2015-10-07 09:23, JenTiki wrote:

• In the case of my home bar (which usually serves only me), some of the most commonly made drinks were, in fact, developed during the recent tiki resurgence. So bottled Falernum has been available, and the versions I fell in love with in local bars usually used Taylor's. So that's the flavor I expect when I think of Falernum, and I do actually love that flavor. I like the subtlety of the spice with the light floral note of the lime. Even for the older (Donn's and Vic's) recipes, they likely made the syrup in their restaurant kitchens the same way day after day in large batches so it was always consistent. I equate that more with bottled, rather than homemade, even though they're made from scratch.

• As I mention above, Taylor's is what is usually used in the versions of these drinks that I love. And I'm talking about high-quality tiki bars in California, not just some tacky hole-in-the-wall joint. I haven't tried the other bottled Falernum's, but one new bar (here on the east coast) is attempting to make their own Falernum and the clove is terribly overpowering. I don't know what recipe they're using, but I did get them to cut back on the clove/allspice. Unfortunately, it still tastes like allspice dram or clove syrup. It's missing the delicate balance of flavors I equate to a good falernum.

• I used to make my own ginger syrup since I used it in most of my own recipes. Since I rarely have guests, it usually went bad before I could use it all, and it was a hassle. Falernum is an even bigger hassle than ginger syrup, and one I'm not willing to go through just to make a few drinks a week for myself, or even for the rare party, when there is a perfectly good bottled version available. I don't think that makes me any less a "cocktail folk," just one who prefers consistency of flavor to the hands-on approach of slaving away over one ingredient. I'd rather spend that time drinking the cocktail, or chatting with my guests on the rare occasion that I have them.

JenTiki, thanks for the thoughtful replies! Let's see if I got the formatting right on your comments above, ha...

I really think your approach is fine, it certainly makes sense, and I'm sure it works well. I really hope that those who write newer cocktail recipes are very clear about what kind of Falernum needs to be used. With the older cocktails, according to what I have come to understand by reading online from Kaiser Penguin, and a number of others, and in the Bum's books, their research seems to point to a "historical" or "vintage" style of falernum which by all accounts does vary but which seems to follow a stronger taste profile than what Taylor makes. I do think many others have reported that Fee Brothers, and BG Reynolds, is stronger than Taylor's, but I'd have to ask others here (or test in my bar) to confirm that. This may be why the Bum seems to favor and recommend Fee Brothers. I'm sure he also recognizes that typical home bartenders do not have the time or patience to make falernum, even though it is not that difficult if you have some basic kitchen skills and can follow directions. I'm sure Taylors works well, I have no issues with the drinks you have come to know and love, but I do stand firm that for purposes of this "comparison" thread the Taylor's Velvet Falernum is very tame.

It's interesting to note that the same issue also exists with simple syrup. 1:1, 1.5:1, or 2:1 ratios? Vic or Donn referred to the latter 2:1 as "rock candy" syrup, if my memory is correct. Again, bar books and new recipes would do well to call this out because there is not a strong agreed-upon naming convention for sugar syrups. This is evident from reading the many cocktail recipe books I have in my collection. The same is true for the always nebulous, yet casual, "dash" and "dollop." We can't fix the past, but we can be more clear when writing and posting future recipes. In my recipes and notes I always specify the simple syrup ratio. That's just a courtesy in a world where there are some gray areas.

I am looking forward to tasting Reynold's and Fee falernums in the future, and I would water-down my falernum if Taylor's was called for in a recipe. I will not buy Taylors because it departs so much from what I have come to recognize as a stronger and more true "historical" flavor profile for falernum in general. I may be wrong, and I will keep a careful eye open for more info on this since I do enjoy being reasonably accurate with my mixology.

Hope I'm not causing anyone frustration or heartburn over this - I was really just trying to share my personal experiences with falernum. I really don't want to beat a dead horse either.

Cheers to you and your mixology!!

The human liver is an organ which in some circumstances has some ability to regenerate itself. I think that calls for a drink!

On 2015-10-07 19:28, AceExplorer wrote:

It's interesting to note that the same issue also exists with simple syrup. 1:1, 1.5:1, or 2:1 ratios? Vic or Donn referred to the latter 2:1 as "rock candy" syrup, if my memory is correct.

I wish i could remember the name of the book/s (there was two of them) that i read a long time ago now, which, from memory, didn't have any recipes in them, they were more technical/history books and one of them spoke about simple syrup and how fructose/glucose/sucrose are all different and when making simple syrup you are changing the chemical structure when you start simmering/boiling sugar.

My point regarding Ace's comment is that i recall that "rock candy" syrup (which was talked about in one of the books, maybe the same chapter) was 2:1 BUT also included a vanilla bean/pod.

Like i said, i read those books about 10yrs ago so i could be wrong, but both the points i mention i KNOW i have read somewhere.

On 2015-10-08 03:26, swizzle wrote:
I wish i could remember the name of the book/s (there was two of them) that i read a long time ago now, which, from memory, didn't have any recipes in them, they were more technical/history books and one of them spoke about simple syrup and how fructose/glucose/sucrose are all different and when making simple syrup you are changing the chemical structure when you start simmering/boiling sugar.

Maybe this tread covers what you had read? http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=20425&forum=10

Lots of interesting posts going on - when I created this thread I did wonder if there's be lots of posts extolling the value of homemade.

Making falernum is fun - if I have some time on my hands & have brought limes in advance of the weekend, it takes only a few minutes...

I wouldn't go so far as to say homemade 'ruins' drinks but Swanky puts it well:

On 2015-10-07 06:27, Swanky wrote:
I made my own for a bit... substituting your home made will mean usually the drink now tastes like your falernum...

I prefer to reach for the bottle I know is going to make the recipe the way I expect it...

Yes for me a bottled product is preferable for consistency.

On 2015-10-06 13:34, AceExplorer wrote:
I won't be able to help you with a comparison because once I started making home-made Falernum I never wanted to go back to ANY bottled product.

This isn't directed at AceExplorer but I think there's a value to comparing your homemade to a few bottled falernums - how would you know it's the best unless you've compared it?

That's what spurs me on to keep trying making my own (occasionally) & trying new brands.

Depending on your falernum & knowing that you dislike Taylors, I'd recommend getting a small bottle of Fees & comparing - Fee's surprised me & it's very different to Taylors!

On 2015-10-07 19:28, AceExplorer wrote:
I really hope that those who write newer cocktail recipes are very clear about what kind of Falernum needs to be used

I've often thought this - I just try Taylors & Fees to pick my favourite. I've even tried a 50:50 blend, when Taylors didn't have enough punch & Fees has too much.

On 2015-10-07 11:31, kkocka wrote:
BG Reynolds' falernum to me is king.

I'd love to hear a comparison of BG Reynolds to Fees - I often make the Hale Pele drink the Wisdom Of Pele (which must use BG Reynolds own falernum), both Taylors & Fees work well IMO.

On 2015-10-08 13:07, AdOrAdam wrote:
This isn't directed at AceExplorer but I think there's a value to comparing your homemade to a few bottled falernums - how would you know it's the best unless you've compared it?

That's what spurs me on to keep trying making my own (occasionally) & trying new brands.
Depending on your falernum & knowing that you dislike Taylors, I'd recommend getting a small bottle of Fees & comparing - Fee's surprised me & it's very different to Taylors!

Thanks AdOrAdam, I'm fully on board with you. At the moment, it's hard to justify buying more falernums when the home-made versions have been highly-touted by many others and are working so well for me. Frankly, I'm not having any of the problems shared by others. Eventually I will compare others side-by-side, because I'm curious by nature, and I think the comments here are worthwhile. But I won't be doing that for a very long time. I think I said I wanted to do the comparisons in an earlier post, but alas, I have a lot of stuff from Gaz Regan I'm working with in my home bar, so I have been whittling away at quite a shopping list.

I think I've shared all I have to share on this, and I've enjoyed the different perspectives and tastes expressed here.

Okole maluna to all!

The sheer quantities involved at commercial bars like DtB, Mai-Kai and even Latitude 29 mean they at a minimum will outsource a lot of their ingredients. You and I can make a pint of falernum and use it over a month. The Mai-Kai is going to go through gallons a night. You think it's a pain, or I mean fun, to zest 8-9 limes for your batch, imagine scaling that up to make enough to last a busy bar for a week...

Absolutely they had a bottled falernum. We all know Donn used the Astra Company to make his flavorings, and then he re-packed them when they got to DtB by adding syrup or juice to make the final ingredients.

I have not had BG's falernum. I would buy his products if the shipping wasn't so high. I'll not argue that his isn't better than Velvet, etc. But let's say this. I have a bunch of the Mai-Kai's recipes. Mariano was very fond of falernum. I make his recipe at home with Velvet and go to the Mai-Kai and try theirs and the difference isn't their great shining crisp falernum coming through. If there is any benchmark left on this planet it is the Mai-Kai. I know they do not use "falernum" per se, they have a similar product they source. But side by side if you use Velvet in your version, you can get at the Mai-Kai version and if anything, the rums or citrus is going to be the difference.

I certainly love my home made falernum. I'd make it into a summer drink with white rum and it's nice. But put it into a Mai-Kai drink recipe and what you have is a mess.

But this is also a way in which our home bars can exceed the masters. I could make my own and find the right balance and perhaps my version would beat out the Mai-Kai. But, to be fair, my version already beats the Mai-Kai's. No bar making thousands of drinks a night is going to beat me making them a few at a time with the best ingredients I can get and everything done ultra-fresh, etc.

Your local bar very likely makes their own syrups, but I'd wager their falernum has shortcuts. It is very time consuming. I have a big shortcut myself, my wife zests the limes! Super easy! The Mrs Swanky 5000 zests the limes with no effort!

I make all my own syrups. Cinnamon, ginger, simple, honey. I make a great falernum. But I don't bother any more and I don't mix with it.

Without causing a ruckus, I was just trying to address some of the "Taylor's is superb" and "handmade is less desirable" comments because those comments are not in line with what I know, and also contrary to what I know many other cocktail folks (whom we all know and love) have said. I don't think that hand-made falernum ruins drinks, and I don't think that Taylor's falernum is perfect. These are two extreme discussion points about falernum, they both have merit in discussion, especially within the context of the time period of the recipes. I recognize that there are differences, and this thread may indicate that there exists a split between "old" and "new" style falernum-using mixology. This would be similar to the simply syrup 1:1, 1.5:1 and 2:1 dilemma in recipes. In other words, for best results, you'll need to specify the style of falernum in a recipe going forward.

Hmmmm... I don't know that the Taylor's flavor profile is close to what was being used or made early in the 20th century. Are we on a tangent about large-volume bars needing gallons of machine-made falernum daily? And that they must buy pre-made and bottled stuff due to volume? I just don't have any evidence available to go down that road. I know personally that Frankie's Tiki Room is very busy, and they used hand-made falernum every time I was there. (Per their bartenders whom I spoke and taste-tested with.)

There's not much more for me to say, I do hope I helped the original poster. It's all good.

Cheers folks!

Here is a must read thread on Velvet Falernum:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4763&forum=10

Fee's vs. Taylor's...

Martin Cate aka Martiki and Jeff "Beachbum" Berry disagree.

And here is the Falernum Taste Test:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=11091&forum=10

What about this one? $26 Bucks with Shipping. Kind of pricey

http://shop.tipplemans.com/

On 2015-10-09 11:22, Hakalugi wrote:
Here is a must read thread on Velvet Falernum:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=4763&forum=10

Fee's vs. Taylor's...

Martin Cate aka Martiki and Jeff "Beachbum" Berry disagree.

And here is the Falernum Taste Test:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=11091&forum=10

Thanks for posting those links! That just backs up my opinion that Taylor's Velvet Falernum is good. And also explains why I prefer it in my drinks, I cut my tiki drink teeth on Martiki's cocktails. I dare anyone here to claim Martiki doesn't know what he's talking about.

Ace, Frankie's may make their own, but my experience is they aren't very high volume. And really, not many bars have the volume of the Mai-Kai and the places of old. I doubt Smuggler's Cove is using 1800 cases of Puerto Rican rum a year.

The more important question for a bar claiming to make their own falernum is, what's your source for lime zest? Is there a machine to do that? Is there a shortcut they are taking?

On 2015-10-09 12:22, Swanky wrote:
...what's your source for lime zest? Is there a machine to do that? Is there a shortcut they are taking?

The Zip Zester is supposed to be quite fast...

Wow, very good replies, thanks to all!

Swanky, I don't know the answers to your questions, but your point is a very good one that the Mai-Kai is very high volume. I'm hoping someone can eventually shed some light on that.

JenTiki, I have come to better understand where you're coming from, and through your posts, will not criticize Taylor's in the future. It is clearly in a different flavor class, but that doesn't make it bad. Martin's works, and your enjoyment of those, are proof of this.

Haka, you really made me laugh with the zester machine! I don't know of anything else like it, but given that citrus zest is potentially used in commercial baking and cooking (I don't know that for fact, just saying) there may be other machines out there which are good at zesting citrus. And as Jen stated, those are good links on the Falernum comparisons as well.

Bonus question - why does my autocorrect in IE always go and capitalize Falernum?

This thread is taking a bit of a 'homemade' vs 'brought' theme.

My thought is if anyone thinks their homemade is better than all the shop brought brands then great, please share the recipe!

Maybe TC needs a 'best homemade falernum recipe thread'?

I'm actually quite surprised that so many people come out on the side of Taylors - I'd definitely recommend trying Fees, to quote my earlier post 'If Taylors can be more refined, Fee Brothers can bring the party. ' - think of it as a different slant on what you are used to.

My hope is to find out people's impression on other brands vs Taylors & Fees to give another suggestion of something that's good.

Sidenote:

I met Martin Cate at a UK Rumfest seminar in 2013 & asked him what he was using for syrups, to paraphrase his answer:

'We use Taylors falernum & Saint Elizabeth allspice dram - sure we could make better but by doing this we are supporting Caribbean producers making a Caribbean product'

So his decision to use Taylors may not entirely be based on its quality. He also said Smugglers Cove makes its own orgeat but if he told me the formula, he'd 'have to kill me' :)

It's widely know that Beachbum Berry has recommended Fees in his books.

All the Mai Kai recipes on the Atomic Grog recommend Fees. Having tried a few drinks (SOS & Jet Pilot) at the Mai Kai that contain falernum, Id agree with Hurricane Haywards reverse engineering that whatever ingredients they use is close to Fees style.

So that's 2-1 for Fees Vs Taylors from the professionals?

On 2015-10-09 13:18, AceExplorer wrote:
Bonus question - why does my autocorrect in IE always go and capitalize Falernum?

Perhaps your autocorrect is versed in Romance language and is capitalizing Falernum as a proper noun naming the region around Mount Falernus — where the Falernian wine of ancient Rome that gives our modern liqueur its name was produced. If course, I may be giving IE much more credit than it deserves.

[ Edited by: Sunny&Rummy 2015-10-10 07:54 ]

Not to belabor this too much more, but home made is better than bottled. But it doesn't make cocktails by the recipes correctly. And it isn't true to the original cocktails more than likely. But one could use home made and tweak the recipes and make something really killer.

For me in LA County, finding Fees syrups is difficult unless I'm willing to be severly overcharged, in which case I'd prefer ordering online over in person (and by the end of all of that, I'd be better off ordering BG Reynolds if I'm gonna order from my house.)

I want to say that Jeff Berry never mentioned the BG Reynolds syrups in his books because they've only been around for a few years and weren't around at the time of creating the books and publishing. I'll do everybody a favor when I get low on my John Taylor's falernum and order me some Fees, and do a simple comparison.

So I was reaching for my bottle of B.G. Reynolds Passion Fruit Syrup this weekend and discovered that I actually do have a bottle of their Falernum as well, and it appears I have used it a time or two. Odd that I didn't remember that. So I had a little taste. Compared to the Taylor's Velvet, B.G. Reynolds is a bit sweeter, and quite a bit spicier. Definitely darker and thicker too. I can certainly see where it would be great in some of the heartier cocktail recipes. But I'll stick to Taylor's for my Saturns and other lighter drinks.

Note: after a tiny taste of the B.G. Reynolds Falernum, I put that on my French toast instead of the Passion Fruit I was going to use. Yummm!

On 2015-10-12 07:48, JenTiki wrote:
Note: after a tiny taste of the B.G. Reynolds Falernum, I put that on my French toast instead of the Passion Fruit I was going to use. Yummm!

Not to take this too far off topic, but I often use BG's orgeat on pancakes and waffles. Seriously good!

To get back on topic and contribute my two cents... I keep both Velvet and Fees on hand. I've not come across BG's in a store yet but I'd love to try it as well. And I plan on making a homemade batch once my current bottle of Velvet runs low to compare them. I've heard many mixed opinions on Velvet. On it's own it does taste a little weak but in certain cocktails it works better than Fees. I tend to make a lot of Mai Kai tributes (a la Atomic Grog) which specifically call for Fees. Although Fees does have artificial ingredients which I try to steer clear of, it likely fits the flavor profile of classic tiki cocktails more so than Velvet does. Having not tried a homemade falernum, I imagine the widely acknowledged recipes are intended to accentuate the spices and therefore I could see what Swanky's point is in how they could ruin (i.e. overpower) a classic drink when there should only be a hint of those flavors. I just bought a 5lb bag of Costco limes so some experimentation is in order this week.

I asked Jeff Berry for his thoughts on today's falernum options. I also asked what he uses at Latitude 29. I'm pleased that he replied and allowed me to share:

Aloha Frank!

There is no controversy, as I see it: either you have the time, patience, and inclination to make your own falernum, or you prefer to buy off the shelf. Either way is cool, as today we have good options for either way.

We make our own falernum at Latitude 29.

We would have used Fees, but the HFCS in it kept us from doing so (it doesn't bother me personally, but I would never force that on our guests). So I crafted a specific L29 falernum that is artisanal and organic.

But for home use, if HFCS doesn't offend you, I recommend Fees, because Fees specifically created it, at the request of Ted "Dr. Cocktail" Haigh, to re-create the flavor profile of the most-used mid 20th-Century brand, A.V. Stansfield's Genuine Falernum (which hasn't been available since the early 1990s, but which we both used back then). It works EXACTLY the way falernum is supposed to in mid 20th-Century tiki drinks. If you don't want to put HFCS in your body, and you don't mind rolling your own, then Paul Clarke's Falernum #8 recipe (in the BBB books and app) is also right on the money flavor-profile wise.

Cheers,

Jeff
*

Ace, thanks for appealing to the Bum and sharing his response. I've tried the Latitude 29 falernum straight from the bottle and it's pretty tasty. My recollection was a nice balance of ginger and clove without being oversweet. However, immediately after trying it, I tasted the falernum made in-house at Isla in Austin and my heart was stolen. I used Taylor's routinely at home and have been very content with results in mixed drinks (so take my taste preference for whatever that's worth). But I've still not yet tasted Fee Bros. I've had BG's falernum out at a bar (exact location escaping me!) and don't remember any adverse affects, but also don't remember noticing any discernible differences from Taylor's.
Cheers!
:drink:

On 2015-10-14 02:34, finky099 wrote:
Ace, thanks for appealing to the Bum and sharing his response. I've tried the Latitude 29 falernum straight from the bottle and it's pretty tasty. My recollection was a nice balance of ginger and clove without being oversweet. However, immediately after trying it, I tasted the falernum made in-house at Isla in Austin and my heart was stolen. I used Taylor's routinely at home and have been very content with results in mixed drinks (so take my taste preference for whatever that's worth). But I've still not yet tasted Fee Bros. I've had BG's falernum out at a bar (exact location escaping me!) and don't remember any adverse affects, but also don't remember noticing any discernible differences from Taylor's.
Cheers!
:drink:

Finky, glad you found the info helpful. Jeff Berry's willingness to answer a few questions is another testament to his commitment to spreading good tiki cheer around the globe both through his books and also personally. I try to follow his example by also sharing some of my thoughts and findings here on Tiki Central. The responses often help me get out of "ruts" that I get stuck in, and this falernum comparison thread is a good example of that. The experiences and experiences of others are eye-opening and helpful.

Finky, Trader Sam's uses the BG. Only place I know I've tried it before.

On 2015-10-06 13:20, AdOrAdam wrote:
I hear Monin have started producing a falernum syrup....

Anyone tried it?

I'm very curious about the Monin Falernum, too, but it isn't yet available in North America. Maybe someone can snag a bottle and give an opinion.

Here's their intriguing promo video:
NEW MONIN Falernum syrup

UPDATE: I emailed an inquiry to Monin USA, and asked whether their Falernum would become available in the North American market. They said, "Thank you for our email. We have no plans at this time to develop this product."
Rats!

"The rum's the thing..."

[ Edited by: Limbo Lizard 2015-11-13 10:29 ]