"Building a Tiki Experience - What's important, and how to do it?"

I'm doing some pre-lim market research on what makes an effective tiki bar. What better place to ask that question than here?

If you could give the following a ranking from 1-10 (1 being lowest importance) on the importance of each of the following that would be helpful.

1. Cocktail flavor
2. Cocktail strength
3. Originality
4. "Staying True" to the classics
5. Distinctive food
6. Encompassing atmosphere
7. Tiki mugs
8. Friendly staff/bartenders
9. Ensuring there are no distractions from theme
10. Music

Mahalo!

[ Edited by: HaleTiki 2017-03-13 12:10 ]

This is a screen capture of the ratings used on Critiki that most people refer to when ranking establishments.

https://critiki.com

"Cocktail Strength" in your list is something I'd be careful about. "Cocktail Balance" is more important in a cocktail than just making everything strong. There are some weaker drinks that are quite good, but they are balanced. Same with strong ones.

Otherwise, the list looks pretty good. You might compare it to the list above which has a lot of overlap but slightly different wording.

"Tilt" is that certain something or indefinable quality that makes a place a little extra special. It might be a sense of historicity or personal preference but it allows one to rank a place a bit higher and claim it is better than the sum of its parts.

[ Edited by: Trader Tom 2017-03-09 18:51 ]

I mainly care about atmosphere which for me includes decor, music, staff, and no intrusions such as TV (especially sprots) (yeah, I meant sprots) or windows on the real world or gawdam-monkey-friggin karaoke.

I no longer seek or expect quality cocktails when out and about so I'm fine with well drinks and beer. I'd rather have quality Americana or Chinese American food than quasi-Polynesian fare.

I love the Alibi in Porltand as it has my preferred perpetual twilight bar atmosphere and has a great Reuben. The music can suck and the tropical drinks during all my visits were half-assed at best, but when I go I'm usually there for at least 2 hours. Unless I went late and the gawdam-monkey-friggin karaoke starts up.

I've been on Critiki and even reviewed most of the bars I've been to on there. I guess I was just wondering that if I had a limited amount of start up cash (which I probably will unless I get lucky) what should I prioritize?

I've posed this question to others on reddit and got a similar response to the first two answers so far. That decor is the most important. I totally agree with that. I just want to see if that continues to hold true and maybe what I should focus on after that.

Looking forward to hearing other responses.

On 2017-03-09 21:56, HaleTiki wrote:
...if I had a limited amount of start up cash (which I probably will unless I get lucky) what should I prioritize?

Here's my input.
Don't let the lack of startup capital get totally in the way. Do the best you can with what you have and avoid the very low end Party City stuff.

I've posed this question to others on reddit and got a similar response to the first two answers so far. That decor is the most important. I totally agree with that. I just want to see if that continues to hold true and maybe what I should focus on after that.

Avoid the mistake of serving crappy drinks, and here's why:

1. Some folks (like me, and a good percentage of the folks who "get" tiki) really appreciate good cocktails. Sitting in a decent or developing tiki environment with crappy drinks will (to me) fall way short of a full and memorable experience. And I HATE paying $12 for a shitty tiki drink. Believe me, that's a problem in my city, and I hate forking over big bucks and getting crap to drink.
2. Today there is NO EXCUSE to serve bad drinks. We have Jeff Berry, Martin Cate, and a number of others with STELLAR tiki and rum drink recipe books. Just by using some of their published recipes you can elevate yourself above MOST of the bars in any city. Then you can innovate LATER after you've developed a following with good cocktails. HONOR your guest by serving good cocktails. To do otherwise is cheating them of a very incredible cocktail experience which they are willing to pay for cuz they can't get it anywhere else.

Then, for your atmosphere, good music is essential. Transport your guests mentally and visually outside to remote islands. Dampen noise if you are busy and draw crowds - use lots of thatch and soft goods on the walls to absorb and break up sound. Bamboo Ben, for example, excels at this and it's just a part of the mojo which he brings to his creations.

Also for atmosphere, good lighting is also essential. People need to read their menus, and that can be tough to achieve, but they also appreciate soft light to match the mood set by music and visual décor.

Try to avoid sucking at it. The more compromises you make, the less memorable (and less valuable) your guest experience will be. Your product is not just tiki - it is a whole guest experience. This also means DON'T BUILD IT UNLESS YOU GET IT AT MOSTLY RIGHT. Why go half way and fail? Go far enough to be decently good at it (be credible!) and enjoy success, then keep ramping it up on a regular basis until you're done. Tease your guests with improvements. Avoid starting out on the road to "tiki roadkill" - start out on the road to tiki success.

If you are planning to build something, we here all very much want you to succeed. Read these forums and get a feel for what works and what doesn't. Learn from those who have failed, and from those who are limping along. Ask questions. Then kick ass and count us among your supporters and friends.

I hope that helps and that we'll get to share a good Mai Tai and Zombie someday to celebrate your success. Cheers!

Well at the Kahiki in the last days, think last eight or more years.

The drinks were not great Jim did do an ok job on the drinks and tasted every one with a straw to make sure of that fact.
He would put the straw in the drink cap the top with one finger and do it that way.

BUT people would go to the Kahiki to see Skip, man he was a riot!
Skips drinks were so strong that I had to drink Bud or not be able to walk.

The food at that time was known to be not great as well.

You went to the Kahiki because it was so cool, part of history and FUN.

Fu*k the drinks who cares! most of us make better drinks at home.
That whole Craft hand made cocktail thing is a advertising tag line to pry money out of you.

Now Tiki Ti does make great drinks and it's not hype IMHO.
Am sure there are others as well.

But these days the owners of these places allow the people who work for them to treat their business like it is there own private party, So for many who go to these places it's not that great as they wait for the bartender to come as he entertains his or her friends.

Grass Skirt does this and it's on the yelp reviews and it still goes on.

So it's about going out and having a good time in the end.
Who wants to go out, be blown off by some half a$$ bartender that was sellin carpet last week.

11. Have plenty of Cash.

On 2017-03-10 07:35, tikiskip wrote:
Fu*k the drinks who cares! most of us make better drinks at home.
That whole Craft hand made cocktail thing is a advertising tag line to pry money out of you.

Skip, you're making a few of us cry, hahaha! The Kahiki was an awesome and cavernous place, and yes, they had a ton of history. The Kahiki was a LEGACY tiki bar. They left a huge impression on whoever visited, and life-long memories. I don't think that's what the originator of this thread has been telling us he may be able to do.

Pardon a brief detour, but I am wondering if HaleTiki really set out to watch us attempt to "crystallize" much of Tiki Central in a single Reader's Digest sort of thread. That would be a helluva social experiment which I can imagine someone with a bit of cheek would enjoy coming up with. This is NOT the first time someone has skipped doing all the research here on this site and just thrown themselves onto all of us for "help." Can I get an "amen?" That's right, I actually notice this sort of potential shenanigan when it seems to come up. Just saying it's possible -- I'm not really in any way calling anybody out on this. It is an amusing thought to me though, so I guess I am gently poking HaleTiki in the ribs for ONLY HAVING MADE TWO POSTS TOTAL as of this writing, and he has a very blank profile. It does makes me wonder if HaleTiki is really someone else who is intentionally anonymous for research purposes. As in - someone who actually may be a design student, for example? Or actually works for Schussler Creative? Or Daroff Design Group? (OMG! I said it!) Or maybe I'm just in the mood for a great conspiracy theory? I'm rambling... haha...

For the record, there is a new tiki bar in my city with developing music and pretty darn good atmosphere. And I can't bring myself to go there very much because I have to count that I'll rack up a $40 tab every time I go and get watery crappy drinks for that money.

Good drinks are a "connector" to people who otherwise may not (initially) have a whole lot to go on when they discover a new place. But I will go to a shitty-looking dive bar if the drinks are good. And I have an established track record of not going to a great-looking tiki bar if the drinks are dismal. Why? Even though I do have what I'm told is one of the largest (by selection and number of bottles) home bars in my city, there just isn't a good substitute for a good tiki bar with good tropical drinks and good people who go there and also appreciate them and the camaraderie. This package is the true "value" to guests and it is a union of multiple aspects of the overall experience.

I hope I made some sense there... Maybe I even contributed a little of value? :drink:

Ace, I often think the same thing about the "test" aspect....like the student who asked, then answered (or questioned the responses) her own questions. Skip, I am jealous of you vast experience with the Kahiki....it must have been amazing. As far as my brief $ comment to Hale, I have owned and or been involved in concepts where to build and maintain business you CANNOT be chasing your tail, or throwing good money after bad. I love great atmosphere and authenticity, but a GREAT well trained staff that makes me feel "WELCOMED and valued" goes a damn long way with me.

Pardon a brief detour, but I am wondering if HaleTiki really set out to watch us attempt to "crystallize" much of Tiki Central in a single Reader's Digest sort of thread. That would be a helluva social experiment which I can imagine someone with a bit of cheek would enjoy coming up with. This is NOT the first time someone has skipped doing all the research here on this site and just thrown themselves onto all of us for "help." Can I get an "amen?" That's right, I actually notice this sort of potential shenanigan when it seems to come up. Just saying it's possible -- I'm not really in any way calling anybody out on this. It is an amusing thought to me though, so I guess I am gently poking HaleTiki in the ribs for ONLY HAVING MADE TWO POSTS TOTAL as of this writing, and he has a very blank profile. It does makes me wonder if HaleTiki is really someone else who is intentionally anonymous for research purposes. As in - someone who actually may be a design student, for example? Or actually works for Schussler Creative? Or Daroff Design Group? (OMG! I said it!) Or maybe I'm just in the mood for a great conspiracy theory? I'm rambling... haha...

For the record, there is a new tiki bar in my city with developing music and pretty darn good atmosphere. And I can't bring myself to go there very much because I have to count that I'll rack up a $40 tab every time I go and get watery crappy drinks for that money.

Good drinks are a "connector" to people who otherwise may not (initially) have a whole lot to go on when they discover a new place. But I will go to a shitty-looking dive bar if the drinks are good. And I have an established track record of not going to a great-looking tiki bar if the drinks are dismal. Why? Even though I do have what I'm told is one of the largest (by selection and number of bottles) home bars in my city, there just isn't a good substitute for a good tiki bar with good tropical drinks and good people who go there and also appreciate them and the camaraderie. This package is the true "value" to guests and it is a union of multiple aspects of the overall experience.

I hope I made some sense there... Maybe I even contributed a little of value? :drink:

Okay definitely a lot of value here and in the post you responded to.

First. I want to lay it out there that I am not a design student and I didn't meant to just hop in here and hope for divine wisdom striking from on high. I realize that I have a new account and no one knows me yet because I have yet to participate outside of this thread really. But I have been lurking, doing research, and picking up important books in the background for quite awhile now. The Smuggler's Cove book for instance is what made me believe that I might be able to actually pull this off if I apply myself correctly.

I am smart enough to realize though that there are people with much more wisdom and tiki knowledge out there than I. For instance I've visited Oceanic Arts and reached out to Bamboo Ben already but I know there are things I don't know. Which is why you find me here asking a pretty open ended question to spur discussion.

Using mostly known recipes to start out in order to make sure my drinks are of quality enough is what I was currently planning. It's good to know I was on the right track there.

"The Kahiki was a LEGACY tiki bar"

See that's just it you CAN'T make or buy that, it only comes with age.
And if you last that long along the way you do learn something too.

People start to cut you slack after you have been around forever.
Although my small diner is dying because the new owner just does not get it.

"Skip, I am jealous of your vast experience with the Kahiki"
Well it was cool but to tell the truth we went to the bar and drank and laughed with Skip the bartender, would have had as much fun if we were out back by the dumpster.

How many times have you gone to a place or even an event and seen people bored out of their skull? on their cell phones?
That is a fail, they may not come back.

Now remember the bar you liked most around yer college days, remember the great cocktails?
or even the great food they had, you were lucky to get burnt popcorn.
You went there cuz it was fun, had lots o girls, and not many frat dicks(unless you were a frat dick)
But heck we liked the small gritty bars, with pool tables.
Travel Agency,Crazy Mama's, Thirsty "I", Mean Mr. Mustards.

We are older but if it is a fun place it won't matter that much about the drinks or food.
I would rather have cheap ok drinks than $15.00 bucks for a drink that's great.
Get that booze flowin people will get happy and you will make money plus your patrons won't be all nervous about that huge bar bill that's on it's way at the end of the night.

I'll go $15.00 on vacation or special events but not at the bar I go to all the time.

If your not in say New Orleans or a Vacation spot you won't get people playing fast and loose with their cash, you need regulars!

A good tiki bar is all encompassing. I don't think you can skimp on any one factor and be a success. And if "Cocktail Strength" is one of your criteria, perhaps a tiki bar isn't the right venture for you. Certainly there should be some potent drinks on the menu but you don't want your patrons getting belligerent and disturbing other guests or hammered so quickly they don't order a second drink. It's about having well balanced, delicious cocktails that justify the $12-15 price tag and encourage folks to spent time and money there and make them eager to keep coming back to explore that awesome menu. Especially if you're an upstart and don't have a several decade long legacy behind you, there's no excuse for not making drinks as good or better than us tikiphiles can make at home. One's that will blow away newcomers. To get us out of the house and into your bar, we need more than just great drinks, we need the complete experience.

To that point, a tiki bar should offer something memorable. An escape from the mundane work a day world. Poorly made drinks, unknowledgeable or unfriendly staff, half-assed decor and improper music all take away from the fantasy you should be projecting.

The Smuggler's book was encouraging to me as well. But Martin had a looong path that led to Forbidden Island and Smuggler's Cove, including time at Trader Vic's where he learned the in's and out's of the industry, plus he has an extensive knowledge of rum and a complete understanding of how to craft cocktails.

Do you have any experience bartending or running a business?

What city are you looking to open your bar?

[ Edited by: mikehooker 2017-03-10 12:42 ]

Then again what TC true tiki people want may not be what is sellin.
Party City stores are going up every day, We hate that brand of tiki.
Jimmy Buffet is playing all the time his name is on everything his brand is
hot, many here hate it.
Taboo cove in Las Vegas as well as Trader Vic's in Vegas, And MANY trader Vic's
are out.
And Taboo Cove was cool! done by Bosko I think.

Truly cool old tiki mugs like Hoffman first gen Kahiki SELLS FOR LESS THAN SOME NEW SH!T!
Now that one blows my mind.

For me I do like the Ma Kai style of décor and I would say go full bore or don't
do it at all.
That tiki pretty, tiki lite and or tiki Indonesia just don't cut it for me.

Also Kahiki was not doing that well at the end, it was when they said it was going out that Kahiki got busy again.

Kahiki may have gone out any way, plus the Hukilau may have saved the Mai Kai as well who knows.

On 2017-03-10 12:41, mikehooker wrote:
To that point, a tiki bar should offer something memorable. An escape from the mundane work a day world. Poorly made drinks, unknowledgeable or unfriendly staff, half-assed decor and improper music all take away from the fantasy you should be projecting.

Do you have any experience bartending or running a business?

What city are you looking to open your bar?

[ Edited by: mikehooker 2017-03-10 12:42 ]

When I wrote 'cocktail strength' I guess I meant how strongly do they remind you of the tiki drinks they should be. Not necessarily how much alcohol was in them.

I definitely want to offer something memorable. I've been working on my business plan and my SWOT analysis of this idea and the main thing that keeps coming up in my mind is that I want this place to be different. I want it to stand out from the surrounding bars. A place people talk about because of the decor, drinks, friendly staff. I have it in my mind to create an atmosphere where things happen similar to Trader Sam's even.

As far as experience. I have business experience, but none from actually working behind a bar. I plan on addressing this weakness through a well chosen hire that I would definitely not skimp on.

As far as location, I don't really know if I want to say that yet if that's okay? I feel like the location will provide me ample opportunities to lure in guests. I think the market is ready for a high end tiki bar and I don't want to feel like I have to rush to market to beat someone else there by giving it away. Maybe that's just me being overly paranoid though.

What is a SWOT analysis in business?
SWOT analysis (alternatively SWOT matrix) is an acronym for strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats and is a structured planning method that evaluates those four elements of a project or business venture. A SWOT analysis can be carried out for a company, product, place, industry, or person.

On 2017-03-10 17:28, tikiskip wrote:
What is a SWOT analysis in business?
SWOT analysis (alternatively SWOT matrix) is an acronym for strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats and is a structured planning method that evaluates those four elements of a project or business venture. A SWOT analysis can be carried out for a company, product, place, industry, or person.

Yup that's exactly right. I did a SWOT on myself and then one on the business itself to make sure I was seeing all sides of potential issues. Even then I'm not stupid enough to think I may be missing something.

On 2017-03-10 14:56, HaleTiki wrote:

When I wrote 'cocktail strength' I guess I meant how strongly do they remind you of the tiki drinks they should be. Not necessarily how much alcohol was in them.

I definitely want to offer something memorable. I've been working on my business plan and my SWOT analysis of this idea and the main thing that keeps coming up in my mind is that I want this place to be different. I want it to stand out from the surrounding bars. A place people talk about because of the decor, drinks, friendly staff. I have it in my mind to create an atmosphere where things happen similar to Trader Sam's even.

As far as experience. I have business experience, but none from actually working behind a bar. I plan on addressing this weakness through a well chosen hire that I would definitely not skimp on.

As far as location, I don't really know if I want to say that yet if that's okay? I feel like the location will provide me ample opportunities to lure in guests. I think the market is ready for a high end tiki bar and I don't want to feel like I have to rush to market to beat someone else there by giving it away. Maybe that's just me being overly paranoid though.

Still not sure exactly what you mean, but you're definitely gonna want a variety of strengths for people to choose from. Places like the Mai Kai have their menu broken into Mild, Medium and Strong sections. Other places use illustrations of kegs to indicate how many ounces of rum are in each drink.

It's good you're doing the legwork and not just jumping into this blindly. I gotta say though, if there's anyone with the means and motivation to open a tiki bar in your area, they likely would have done it already. I doubt them seeing your post on Tiki Central will suddenly jump start their process and beat you to the punch. But you could never be overly cautious I suppose.

I'll tell you this though, I'm actively trying to open a tiki bar in Austin. I've got a good business plan and have lined up some financial backers. We've raised the majority of capital we'll need to build it and float us for a while. I've currently got someone scouting locations. I'm happy to tell people of my plan while still keeping my ear to the ground to see if anyone else around here is planning a similar venture because I'd hate for it to come as a surprise shortly after we open that someone down the street is also doing a tiki bar.

I'll tell you this though, I'm actively trying to open a tiki bar in Austin. I've got a good business plan and have lined up some financial backers. We've raised the majority of capital we'll need to build it and float us for a while. I've currently got someone scouting locations. I'm happy to tell people of my plan while still keeping my ear to the ground to see if anyone else around here is planning a similar venture because I'd hate for it to come as a surprise shortly after we open that someone down the street is also doing a tiki bar.

That's a great point and honestly now that I think about it there is no better place to share the location of a potential tiki bar than here where all the best resources and the greatest spirit of tiki can be found. I don't know what I was thinking.

I'll be open about it. I'm looking at the potential for a tiki bar in the Ann Arbor area of Michigan. For many reasons I think one could thrive there.

I'm going to offer a ridiculous tourist perspective you shouldn't listen to...

The concept of alcohol tasting good is still relatively new to me. I spent most of my life teetotalling, so the importance of the cocktails is peripheral to me personally. I like the concept of drink "balance" though. I've been to a few places where I felt a drink would be better if it was weaker on the alcohol. But to be totally honest, most of my drink choices are made based on the souvenir mug that comes with it. I'll sit through a cocktail to get a cool mug.

I like Tiki in general, anytime, but what I find most appealing are bars with a hook to them. I like the Disney ones because they're chock full of Disney references and effects. I like Sip-n-Dip because it has mermaids. I love looking at the home bars here that are themed beyond simply Tiki. It may just be because I like my Tiki best when it's either hyper-anthropologically accurate or high-fantasy "Enchanted Tiki" with mermaids, sunken ships, giant apes, krakens, dinosaurs, Swiss family treehouses, etc.

So if you make an engaging, distinctive bar with some neat hook and nice mugs, I'm in!

I'm looking at the potential for a tiki bar in the Ann Arbor area of Michigan. For many reasons I think one could thrive there.

Location is a huge factor. A tiki bar might work well there, but here are my thoughts as an ex-pat mid westerner.

We're spoiled here, where I now live, in the Los Angeles area, when it comes to tiki cocktails.

Not only do we have several great tiki bars in driving distance but our liquor stores have an excellent selection of rums compared to other parts of the country so we can make great tiki cocktails at home.

I'm originally from Southern Illinois and when I go back to visit family, I have to take a break from tiki cocktails.

Chicago has some excellent bars, but the liquor stores and bars in Southern Illinois think a complete rum lineup includes Malibu Coconut, Captain Morgan Spiced and Bacardi Silver.

Some places in Southern Illinois have started serving craft cocktails with higher end spirits but they are all tilted in favor of whiskey and bourbon.

When I Google searched for "Ann Arbor Tiki Cocktail Bars" up came two bars: The Ravens Club and The Last Word.

I tried to look up their cocktail menus and only The Ravens Club had one posted.

http://theravensclub.com/menus/

They list a Mai Tai towards the bottom as their only rum drink and since they bother to list "Dry Curacao" as an ingredient, I assume they are trying to use high-end spirits even though they didn't specify what rums were used.

This is contrasted with their proud total listing of all their whiskeys and bourbons above.

I am guessing that this area, like Southern Illinois, is mostly tilted toward whiskey and pitching a rum forward menu is going to take some work.

Even with a great Tiki environment.

You may have to educate your audience on what to expect from a good tiki cocktail and what quality rums can taste like.

If you want to really push rum and be the expert on rum drinks, I would consider a model like Blair has at Hale Pele in Portland, Oregon, where I lived for a few years.

Blair's back bar has a huge range of rum from all over the world organized by region with little plaques so that anyone who comes in is being given a tutorial on rum just by pulling up a stool.

He also has a loyalty program in place so that you can work your way through sampling rums from across the world, or, if you don't want to drink straight rum, you can work your way through all the cocktails on the menu.

Smuggler's Cove has a similar program in place which I am not as familiar with. Blair consulted with Martin and they have a lot in common with how their businesses are arranged.

You mentioned you have the Smuggler's Cove book, so this should give you an idea of how the bars are set up. Great book, by the way.

I think with any new Mid West tiki bar there are going to be a lot of potential customers who need to try a variety of rum to realize it has complexity and variety far beyond what they've sampled from their local liquor store shelves.

If you nail the decor but all your drinks are still made using boring supermarket/local liquor store offerings like Malibu, Captain Morgan, and Bacardi Silver, then I don't think it would really work for the long run after the initial novelty died out.

In addition to Smuggler's Cove, I would urge you to look at some of the other bars that Martin had a hand in and see how they used his ideas in different kinds of spaces/neighborhoods.

Anyway, those are my further thoughts for what they're worth. I think you are getting some good feedback and I hope it is helping.

Keep us all updated!

Some great points from the knowledgeable Tiki bar/cocktail folks. I have never run a Tiki Bar (GM of a Castaway's many moons ago) but I have owned/run many Restaurants/Bars, so from a straight up Biz angle (I'm sure Skip know what I'm saying) here goes.

It's a brutal nasty industry, one you will love and hate at the same time. Also, remember you can't Eat or Drink Atmosphere. Quality and Service Rules!
What is not always known to the new operator (or Customer) is the tons of $$$ needed for the behind the scene expenses. They never think of the huge rent and leases/permits & licenses/uncontrollable fluctuation of food/bev costs/huge utilities/ungodly insurance/never ending payroll & taxes/state and federal taxes/off the chart costs for equipment and repairs/snow removal/smallware costs/paper goods/local marketing and advertising/POS/ASCAP/internet/cable/WiFi/pest control/linen/cleaning supplies/carpet cleaning/hood cleaning/window/alarms & security etc..etc. I knew all this going in and accepted the risk, with still a VERY fine line between failure and success. I was taught early on by the best and can pick a Restaurant P&L apart as well as I can a Maine Lobster. As in doing some consulting, some of these owners have NO CLUE what their food and beverage costs are let alone labor costs. The reality in the biz is labor is the only thing once saved drops right to the bottom line. But in the end without a nice top line you will have NO bottom line.

A wise old chef told me..."hey you wanna know how to make a small fortune in the Restaurant biz?.....START with a large one!"

Thanks for listening to my rant..Just my 2 cents.

Or Got Rum? You know when you hear people talk and you can tell if they know what the heck they are doing?
I can tell you know.

People would come in our very busy diner and be in awe of how we were so busy, Phone ringing, line out the door.
Well we were born there, we all knew what we were doing.

People would come in and tell me they were going to open a place like mine and I had questions I would ask to see how they would do.

Are you and your family going to work there? you need to watch the place people will steal and give the joint away.
It says on the dollar bill in God we trust, if god is your partner you will be fine otherwise trust no one.

How many partners are you going to have? one guy told me 12! they were out and in court with each other within a year.
The guy who works at the place will be happy and get paid, other partners will wonder if the place will ever make a profit.

How much is the rent? and how long is the lease? Three options on a three year run are best,
you can get out if it tanks.
One guy had a 10YEAR lease right off the bat! they want that money even if you go out and they did go after the 8 years left on the lease when the 2 partners went out in two.
They are not as good friends as they were when the opened the place.

Are you buying a place that was already a restaurant? did it do well? why are they selling?
It is best to buy a place and redo it as this will cost much less to do.

Now there are ways to make it and these rules don't apply so much but many times there is a different game there, the person that started the place gets many partners to buy into the place and puts up lots of restaurants.
The guy who started the place makes money but the partners don't.

We have at least three people here that are playing that game and one is a tiki bar.
They do in some cases make lots of money.

40 plus restaurants went out of business in the block where my family's diner was in downtown Columbus in the time we were there.
Wendy's, MacDonald's, Skyline, White Castle, all gone.

Hale Tiki,

If you need help with the design/build let me know.
I've done a couple in the past.
( including Hale Tiki that was in Augusta, Ga. )

p.s.

http://www.swankpad.org/hale/hale.htm

This is ALL great stuff.

I know that the rum connections in the Midwest are definitely weaker than they are on the West coast but I'm betting on the fact that we are unique to be one of the main draws of the place. We won't be exclusively rum based either, just rum loaded. I do have ideas on ways to introduce the market to the different styles of rum and a loyalty program is definitely in the works.

As far as costs go, I've been working with SCORE advisers in the area already to make sure that I get those worked out and estimated as closely as possible. In most cases I'm over estimating on costs like rent, utilities, internet, insurance, etc and getting quotes from multiple places to see what different things will run me. I have a spreadsheet that adds up employee cost along with your standard month to month costs and then allows you to play with how many drinks you estimate you'll sell to see what the cash flow situation theoretically will look like. As for the cost of ingredients I've got most of the syrups/juices/and types of rum isolated for cost down to the ounce. That way when it comes to the drinks I can find out what my per drink cost is down to the penny.

For partners, it'll just be me and whoever wants to be a financial backer.

Aloha Ben! I don't know if you remember my emails to you about six months ago when I was first beginning the thought processes on this, but we've come a long way since then. If this ever comes to fruition, you will be one of the first three calls I make, right after Oceanic Arts and my wife.

I did also want to open a tiki bar here and was going to use Ben if I did.

And look at Hale Tiki! it was awesome!
As in one year and gone, why did it go out?
looked right to me.

"I'm betting on the fact that we are unique to be one of the main draws of the place."
I bet Hale Tiki thought that same thing.

Don't want to be a downer, but people need to find the right way to make these places work and stay for many years.

I hate to see people loose all that money and work putting in these places all for not.
They are very hard to sell once they start to tank, other restaurant folks wait for the sale and get the place bit by bit for pennies.

You are looking at it very hard so that's good.

Hey I sell lights and I should be like go for it you will do great.
I live in Ohio and you could drive up and save ship costs even.
Just sold a bunch to a bar near here and he paid WAY less than any other place he could have gone.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=18485&forum=18&880

Good luck!

As Skip Said (BTW, If you pull the trigger-His lights are the BEST) I also am not trying to be a cramp, I just have experienced the emotional and FINANCIAL pain of Business and unforeseen circumstances.

In my first private venture I had a partner and things got snagged when we had a deal to buy all the equip (hoods +++) in place...good price. Lease was on a 6500 sq ft restaurant/ bar in a historic landmark location. When 1 of the owners of the equip went into a bankruptcy we could not complete the deal until that was settled. One month turned into 13 and I was personally down 165000+ before we opened the doors or could apply for the liquor license. Plus my partner's money was not appearing as it was stated to and it cost me $ to get him out.

You also need a REAL projected P & L and a complete separate costing of the menu...then you can apply the sales mix for the theoretical costs. The things that will get you is say...Mugs...sure wholesale they are 5.95 each for example. Well, you will need a set up fee for artwork/logos and then pay for a minimum of 100...so @ 700.00 up front for 1 logo-ed mug. Of course this is an example, but these are the things that come at you hard and fast.

I wish you well and am just trying to bust the myth that it's an easy cool business and passion will carry you across the line. Keep us all abreast of the progress.

On 2017-03-11 12:53, HaleTiki wrote:

Aloha Ben! I don't know if you remember my emails to you about six months ago when I was first beginning the thought processes on this, but we've come a long way since then. If this ever comes to fruition, you will be one of the first three calls I make, right after Oceanic Arts and my wife.

AHA!!! :)

"I've been working with SCORE advisers"

Are you getting an SBA loan?
I can remember my mom having to jump through all these hoops for an SBA loan, they even have people that for a fee would do the many forms for you it was so hard.
One of the questions on the form was your projection for what you would make the first year of operation.

my mom was very proud of the fact that she hit this number within 100 bucks, so was SBA.

She had to meet with SCORE advisers as well, she had owned three other places before this
and thought this to be a pain.

By the time I was going to open a place as well women were no longer eligible for an SBA loan, at least not one like my wife.
Don't know how that is today.

My compliments to HaleTiki and others who have made this thread what it is -- a very good crystallization of a lot of important (and wise) things. Two quick thoughts:

1. I am thinking that you could change the title of this thread from "Rating the Tiki Experience - What's important?" to "Building a Tiki Experience - What's important, and how to do it?" That seems to sum up what you're really achieving here.

2. Wishing you the best of luck in your effort. You've got access to a very good brain trust in this thread. I'm looking forward to hearing of your eventual opening, and also to what Mike shared that he's contemplating in Austin.

:drink:

Edit - corrected "Tiki Hale" to "HaleTiki." Oops...

[ Edited by: AceExplorer 2017-03-13 10:14 ]

TikiSkip - Those lights look fantastic! I'll definitely be hitting you up for a few if/when the time rolls around.

OrGotRum? - Yea I know there are a lot of variables. I've gotten quotes on pretty much everything I can think of inclining set up fees for mugs which I put into my cost/price formulas to figure out what I would charge for each etc. I'm sure there are bits and pieces that I am still missing that I need to research and figure out and I plan on doing plenty of reading and researching before we move forward with actually opening. I do not plan on going forward unless I am 100% confident that not only can I get the place open, but that it will stick.

Not a single reply here should worry about being a downer or raining on my parade. I want and need the hard truths so that I can look at them head on. I don't want to be prepared, I want to be overly prepared.

As far as funding goes, I have not ruled out anything yet. Just this weekend I started to really crystallize what the funding number should be in order to get up and running and have operation costs covered for about a year and there is still some fine tuning that will need done to make sure I have it right. I definitely will not be seeking funding until I'm confident in my numbers and that the idea will work.

AceExplorer - Just changed the title based on your suggestion. You're totally right!

I think drink quality is a huge reason for the longevity of a tiki bar. Sure, people might still go to bars that look cool but have low quality drinks, but everyone will know and agree that the drinks are bad and it will be the first thing anyone ever says about the bar. I think sticking to the classics for awhile is a good move. There is really no excuse in this day and age to have bad drinks. I am not saying that they need to be craft cocktails or that you need to squeeze juices all morning before you open, but people will notice the effort you put into your drinks and quality matters.

My advice would be to go check out the Foundation Bar in Milwaukee. They won the most hospitable (or whatever the phrasing was) tiki bar on Critiki. I have been there for short amounts of time twice now and I have always walked away feeling like they really wanted me there and enjoyed talking to me. You will have to teach people what tiki is, so a knowledgeable staff is a must.

Good luck! I will come visit if you ever get it off the ground.

"They won the most hospitable"

Not saying that the Foundation Bar is bad or good, never been there.
BUT this whole rating thing can be BS, the Grass skirt here to me is not great but the FOM is here and has events at the Grass Skirt so every year the Grass Skirt gets tons of "wow this place is great" posts on Yelp and whatever so their rating is (Rating: 3.3 - ý150 reviews) so even with all the help from that group it's kinda low.
Just think what it would be if not for that help.

Again the Kahiki drinks were not great towards the end.

I hear more people complain about the price of drinks than the quality, but then Ohio does have some broke Mo Fos so Cali may be different.
Also lots of slow service complaints at Grass Skirt.

Don't really see a bunch of drinking when we go to tiki events the last place we went to sold very little drinks.
When we would go to Tropical Bistro here in town the tiki group would go there at the end of the night and drink or eat next to nothing.
And the Tropical Bistro went out.
They drank a ton at my house before we went to Tropical Bistro.

When we go out here we spend about $55.00 plus tip For food and booze, hear lots of "we had one drink" or "we don't drink" here on TC.

Tiki bars and restaurants can't live on that people.

That's why Restaurant owners LOVE smokers they EAT, they DRINK, and they don't want water with a dam lemon in it.
Smokers want dessert too because their not on a diet cus they know smoking is going to kill them so live now.

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2017-03-15 02:47 ]

Foundation bar is in Milwaukee seems kind of close to him, that is why I suggested it. I think it would be a good place to aspire to in that area of the country. I don't pay much attention to ratings, but that one stuck out in my mind since I had been there and experienced it. I think yelp is also different since companies pay them for favorable reviews, I don't consider anything on yelp relevant it is all a facade.

I have had my share of cheap beers and free shots. At this point in my life (39) I would rather not drink than to do anymore free shots and if I never had another beer I wouldn't shed a tear, although I am sure I'll have plenty beers this week. I guess I would rather pay a few more $$ for a good quality drink, or not drink at all. It is true that prices are different in SoCal, my brother lives in Hollywood and a $12 beer is not unheard of. Tiki Ti is packed everyday they are open and their drink prices are $9-$18. You can get a cheap beer and a free shot every 3 blocks so there is no reason to go to a tiki bar if that is what you are after around here.

I know that tiki is much more than the drinks, but if you say drink quality is not important, you are in the minority (at least with people I come in contact with).

Skip, you are right on the prices. I think it might be generational with younger people accepting higher drink pricing is here to stay. I have never worried about them, but in Michigan an $18 drink might not go over well. I still think that you can use quality ingredients and sell drinks for under $10 and still make a profit.

I do think that being treated well, fast service and yes good food and drinks are important.

But this whole fresh everything and best rums stuff is a bit much.

It's great in theory but if you are kicking ass and making money you going to do all that squeezing everyday?

I'm sure there are places that do it but as a person who had a very busy place after a while you get like burnt out on that.

So make it good and something that won't kick you and your staffs butt is what I'm saying.

The average check at my place 13 years ago was $6.00 bucks, we had no booze.
People were in and out in less than 20 minutes most of the time.

With a bar you want them to stay, but then only if they are spending money, or are hot and have other people spending money on them.

Back in the day half of your drinks were free as people bought you drinks or the bartender bought your drinks.
Plus I knew many bar owners so maybe that's why I have sticker shock.

Tiki drinks are one shot of this and two of that so that's three shots, if you are a regular at a bar and order Vodka with a splash of whatever it will have three shots in it I guarantee you that and you may not pay for but half of the ones you drink on any given night.

So your bartenders are GOING to give it away to jack up their tips so why use top booze and have them give that away?

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2017-03-14 18:47 ]

Lots of interesting wisdom being shared here that I'm not going to touch, seeing as how my restaurant/bar experience is quite limited compared to those who've already commented. I will suggest, however, that learning from the mistakes of others can be just as useful as taking honest advice to heart. Point being, Pilikia in Dallas. It's been open two months and I've yet to see a positive review. My writeup here was the most favorable they've received thus far (that I'm aware of) and even that was lukewarm. That doesn't bode well for long-term viability, even allowing that the dedicated tiki crowd makes up only a small portion of their clientele.

And I'm glad to hear of Mike's Austin plans. Looking forward to seeing it come to fruition some day!

On 2017-03-14 18:44, tikiskip wrote:
The average check at my place 13 years ago was $6.00 bucks, we had no booze.
People were in and out in less than 20 minutes most of the time.
With a bar you want them to stay, but then only if they are spending money, or are hot and have other people spending money on them.

Skip, excellent intro to a discussion of in-house entertainment which could help keep people in the bar longer. It's a weird topic though because the "right" entertainment is hard to find or create. And you definitely want to NEVER head towards karaoke, video displays showing sports, and all the other things we don't want in a tiki bar. Any tiki bar which shows sports or karaoke may already be circling the drain.

Entertainment can be costly though. You may need it to get started. Once you achieve a certain business volume, cut back.

Entertainment is EXPENSIVE...it can be a boon for business. But in many cases Entertainment can be like discounting...once you start on a regular basis, it's hard to get out without affecting sales. The ability to have it and HYPE it works best...make it SPECIAL.

Another touchy subject I am hearing here and have read on TC before is..."We won't like that..TV..proper Tiki bar... etc." Is TC and it's members going to be the ones paying your bills? I would hope the members would come often, but the reality (esp. in Michigan) is you need to draw from your local people, and try to find out what it would take to keep them coming back in droves.

The super authentic ($$) drink issue is another thing that was mentioned here...I'm not sure about Michigan, but I damn well know it wouldn't fly in Wisconsin. They would love the cool bar aspect, but a 13.00 drink...NO F'in Way. In Northern VA...Sure...expendable $$.

I think about different concepts (for me and others-consulting) often and the most important thing is staying in business and making money. If you have boatloads of $$ to piss away and want a hobby, cool. I think in this day and age pulling off a "WELL DONE' proper Tiki Bar is a huge challenge with many (location-execution-CONSISTENCY!) variables involved. I just think most people in the GP (General Public) don't get it...the Polynesian Escape, that is.

On 2017-03-15 09:41, Or Got Rum? wrote:
Another touchy subject I am hearing here and have read on TC before is..."We won't like that..TV..proper Tiki bar... etc."

Yup, generally agree. My thinking on this has softened in recent years after visits to Frankie's Tiki Room in Las Vegas AND also what one local tiki bar in my city is doing right now:

1. Frankie's, as I recall, was showing Polynesian, tropical, tiki, and related themed material on their displays. It worked well.
2. My local tiki bar simply shows a tropical fish scene on a big monitor behind the bar. It works well.

As stated a few times already, you gotta ensure that people keep coming in so you can pay your bills and make a profit. Video displays may be what people are comfortable with in this day. If I go to a tiki bar alone, and I'm a repeat customer, my eye and mind appreciate the distractions these monitors offer during my visit. This is especially true when I've been there a while looking around and I'm not in a conversation with anyone.

This thread is a good thought-provoking compendium of interesting things.

I'm doing my best to absorb and not butt in too often with more questions or clarifying remarks because this discussion has been great all around. A lot of things for me to consider and weigh.

There definitely has to be a balance between perceived quality vs. cost. Boutique beer and ciders are on the rise all over the country and in Michigan as well. So, I had a feeling that if I could emphasize ingredient quality and the guests could taste the difference that could help them absorb and understand a slightly higher price point. But maybe the way to the heart of the guests will be to not go all in for the high quality fresh squeezed bespoke drinks and just to serve them a drink that tastes good at a very similar price point to what they are used to. Only the tiki-philes will know the difference.

When I set out on this I wanted it to be a bar tiki-philes will love and want to visit all the time, but that could draw in the outsiders as well and help them fall in love with the tiki spirit and culture. I still want to do just that, but what I'm hearing is I need to be wary of the line in the sand because if I go too far I may lose those day to day guests that I need to stay in business.

The Pilikia that Prikli Pear brought up is a good example of this. I looked into the reviews on FB, Yelp, and Critiki for that bar and while most of the tiki lovers who visit there are not the biggest fans (via FB and Yelp) they still have overall good reviews and a rating of 7 out of 10 on Critiki, which to be honest in the modern era of Tiki I would consider somewhat a success.

I know for a fact that for myself, as someone who loves Disney and wanted to be an imagineer, that the theme is going to be something I focus on a great deal. Much like Walt I am not going to want to break that theme for almost any reason. Be it TVs, Karaoke, or live bands, I just don't think that stuff will have a place in my space. I have high hopes that I can program a system similar to Trader Sam's and the enchanting music, eclectic decor, and friendly service will be enough to keep people around for that second drink.

Now I'm still learning whether that is truly something that could work though and every bit of feedback I've been given here has been logged and carefully considered. I hope you guys can see that I'm taking this seriously.

On 2017-03-15 10:20, HaleTiki wrote:
Now I'm still learning whether that is truly something that could work though and every bit of feedback I've been given here has been logged and carefully considered. I hope you guys can see that I'm taking this seriously.

I think you are taking this seriously - you are giving good feedback. Yes, you must make a profit - you must sell beer to the non-cocktail crowd. Good to hear you have "Imagineering" high standards - you will very likely succeed with your environment and theming. One additional "share" from my perspective -- your bartenders are cocktail "evangelists." As such they should show pride in craftsmanship towards all their customers. For example, the following dialog:

Bartender: Wanna try a really good drink?
Customer: Sure.
Bartender: This is a XYZ, and it's made with really outstanding XXX and hand-made syrups. You can taste the complex layers of the ingredients, and the quality of the end result. What do you think? Isn't it awesome?
Customer: That was so awesome - can I sleep with you? :) (just kidding)

Or along those lines. Many customers are so jaded by cocktails that you discover you have to lead them into the experience. Enthusiasm is contagious, therefore to have outgoing and talkative bartenders is helpful to educate your customers.

I remember bartenders doing this to me (Frankie's is a good example of one place that did this with me) but there are others who eventually led me into gins and whiskeys which I was not approaching due to my affinity for rums.

Great Example Ace! This is what I meant when I said on page one..."I love great atmosphere and authenticity, but a GREAT well trained staff that makes me feel "WELCOMED and valued" goes a damn long way with me." I think it can be THE most important asset you can have...your Employees. I would refer to them as "where the rubber meets the road".

On 2017-03-15 12:08, Or Got Rum? wrote:
Great Example Ace! This is what I meant when I said on page one..."I love great atmosphere and authenticity, but a GREAT well trained staff that makes me feel "WELCOMED and valued" goes a damn long way with me." I think it can be THE most important asset you can have...your Employees. I would refer to them as "where the rubber meets the road".

Thank you, Or Got Rum, we're definitely on the same page. I always like to go back to what the customer would think sucks, and then I try to mitigate or avoid that. Lousy service and unenthusiastic employees hurt a business which is based on service and fun, and a tiki bar environment is such an effort. It should be escapism to a very high degree. Good music, good drinks, good atmosphere with friendly people. You don't have to be "the best" but you definitely cannot survive by being mediocre.

Find out what the BAD situations are, and then work very hard to avoid them. Hiring good people who care about the business is your front-line defense through which you can listen for problems, correct them, and avoid all-out failure.

By the way --- I believe that bartenders are a gateway to discovery. They can get customers out of their rum-and-coke ruts to discover rum barrels, mai tais, and more which will quickly set your bar apart from the other "noise" that's out there. But you gotta coddle your beer drinkers too. They can be good bread-and-butter baseline revenue. It took me a while to learn this, but it is now solid reality to me.

Edit: corrected "front-line defense against" to "front-line defense through which you can..."

[ Edited by: AceExplorer 2017-03-15 12:43 ]

On 2017-03-15 11:32, AceExplorer wrote:
Many customers are so jaded by cocktails that you discover you have to lead them into the experience. Enthusiasm is contagious, therefore to have outgoing and talkative bartenders is helpful to educate your customers.

This is a really excellent point. As a particularly cynical b*stard, the one thing that really stood out the most about my initial visits to Pagan Idol was how infectious their enthusiasm was. I couldn't wait to go back and everyone that I've brought with me on subsequent visits has felt the same. I'll go to any bar once - this, however is what will keep me wanting to return.

So, it seems to me that the most important thing to do is ensure my guests are feeling the environment via the employees as well. Much like holding the theme to the Imagineering standard the plan was to hold my employees to the same standard that Disney holds theirs as well. In a similar manner I've only referred to my customers as guests both here and in my business plan for this reason. Also, in response to the high standards I have built a month to month budget on not skimping on bartender and waiter pay.

If we can create a welcoming environment both in theme and in spirit via our employees then I think that foundation will go a long way towards us being a success.

Keep all of the ideas flowing guys and gals.

Good idea to look at what standards you will need to hold high. Another couple of ways you could look at it:

• What would cause the local press to celebrate your place?
• What achievements or experiences would the press get excited about and want to share with their readers?
• What would be so unique that it would get people excited about your place, generate tons of word-of-mouth, and stimulate repeat business?

It's not necessarily about paying top dollar for bar staff as it is in finding the staff who have enthusiasm and will be committed to your vision of what needs to be achieved with each guest. Your leadership must inspire them, but then they must be able to catch and carry that vision day-in and day-out going forward on their own. If they fall flat, you will too.

For theming -- "easter eggs" are something I think you've hinted at, and I think that's a great idea. What can you have that will be programmed to light up ONLY BRIEFLY and ONLY ONCE EVERY TWO HOURS, or move a bit, or make a sound? Now THAT'S unique and memorable and will give the press something to get their arms around and your guests something to sit on the edge of their seats for. But don't break the bank with something complex. Simple is definitely ok if it makes a strong impact on the guest. Make them sit on the edge of their seats and wait to see your magic and come back often with friends. These things could be the icing on top of your good drinks, your great bar staff, creative theming, and decent food.

One more thing - location, location, location. But rent will be higher in more desirable high traffic areas. Just don't handicap yourself right at the start with super low rent which comes with little or no visibility or unsafe or poor parking. We could make a list of things which are "death" to success just as easily as the things which inspire and interest us to keep coming back for more.

Okay, I'm going to risk ostracism here because I know this is going to be heresy in some quarters. But I'm a relative newcomer to tiki culture, so maybe I can get away with it as I offer a newcomer's perspective. :lol:

Part of the issue here is training the uninitiated guests to the bar that quality tiki cocktails are something special to be savored. The trouble is, many will balk at the comparatively higher prices (like I did a Pilikia) and if that high end cocktail doesn't blow them away (mine was okay, but mostly ice), they're gone. It's all or nothing with little to offer the neophyte who is intimidated by the daunting classic drinks. How to bridge that gap, financially?

Beer is an obvious necessity. Local craft beers are preferable to the Budweisers and Millers of the world, but even beyond that there is opportunity. Kona Brewing Company has a nice line of beers that fit nicely within the tiki theme. The Caribbean isn't tiki, but it is tropical and Red Stripe is fairly well known. Corona isn't a particularly good beer, but it's very popular and associated with tropical relaxation. The idea is escapism, right? Tropical beers can be thought of as escapism with training wheels. Availability through local distribution would be the biggest hurdle here.

Next are the tropical drinks everyone is familiar with that make tiki purists recoil: Daiquiris, pina coladas, margaritas, hurricanes, etc. The general public recognizes them, and knows what they're getting. They're safe, non-intimidating, and can be a significant revenue stream early on. Look, when The Wife and I first started getting into wine, we were pretty ignorant. Suffice to say, we drank a lot of white zinfandel. The bolder, more complex wines turned us off. Our palates simply weren't ready for them. But we haven't bought zinfandel--white or otherwise--in more than a decade. Our palates matured, but we had to start somewhere and white zin was the gateway. Those fruity drinks can be a lifeline to newcomers, and are a perfect opportunity for the bartender to say, "You like that? Have you ever had an octopus? Oh, I think you'll love it!" And even these tropical drinks can be tiered--the low-budget house liquors, and the premium stuff. Here in Texas where margaritas rule, almost every restaurant or bar has 3-4 different options on that one, and that doesn't even get into the frozen or on-the-rocks options.

A local pizza chain, Double Dave's, once specialized in exotic beers from all over the world. They had 90 or so in stock at any given time. That was a draw, but also terribly intimidating. So they sweetened the pot by offering a "Global Beer Expert" program. Once a patron had sampled every beer offered (they issued a punch card to keep track) one was designated an "Expert" and got their name added to a plaque on the wall with all the other Experts' names. There were also Master and PhD levels for those who repeated the feat (they discontinued the program whilst I was halfway through my Masters). It was a lot of fun, and introduced me to many beers I never would've even heard of otherwise. Something similar could be developed for the True Tiki Drinks, those that cost more and are intimidating to the tiki bar novice. Call them a "Master Cocktail Explorer" or somesuch and award them a custom tiki mug, or a mini tiki shot glass, or whatever with that designation (cost/benefit dependent, of course). Sure, it's gimmicky, but it's also fun. Some people just respond to a challenge. Others just want to win the "free" prize.

I guess the whole point of this long-winded post is that the bar needs to be welcoming to the non-tiki newcomers beyond even the training of the bar staff. Staff training, as others have pointed out, is super-important. Critical even. But even then, there are going to be guests that come in on busy nights that escape the notice of the staff. The look at the menu quietly, see nothing they recognize and prices higher than the dive down the street, get intimidated and leave without speaking to anyone. If there's a Kona Castaway IPA there, well, they like IPAs and this is one they've never tried. They order it, and this gives the wait staff an opportunity to engage them that might not have existed before.

Maybe I'm way off base, but I would think attracting the general public and having an opportunity to educate them and cultivate their taste in cocktails is a necessity for survival.

[ Edited by: Prikli Pear 2017-03-16 20:15 ]

[ Edited by: Prikli Pear 2017-03-16 20:20 ]