Hands and fingers in knots

A question for you master carvers. How do you treat your hands after a long day of chiseling hard wood? I'm not sure what this wood is, but I would guess it's Elephant Iron Wood. (Holds the detail well though). Anyway, my hands are crampy knots , and I can roll my fists together and crack every knuckle. Is there a remedy, or is this part of paying the dues?

This is a daily part of "Paying the Dues" as you said. A soak in warm water that has Epsom Salts added really helps. A Heating pad helps. After awhile you get built up to it and it won't be so bad, but Wood carving takes a Lot of arm and hand strength. your hands are tools just like chisels and they will wear out. Wearing gloves helps some.
I hope this helps, welcome to the carvers painfil hands world. PS Oh and don't forget the bandaids.....
Oops, you were asking the MAster carvers, disreguard what I said

[ Edited by: Benzart on 2004-03-14 16:36 ]

Some nights, i just stare at my hand and watch it slowly cramp up. I let the cramp ride itself out, everyone is telling me its bad, but I get less of them now. I'm only 24 and I see worse results from the stain, oh that smell. You'll also develop thick hands with permanant slivers in them. But to save your hands and shoulder, you should really carve the softess wood around... palmwood! goOd luck. Ben, you are the master!

A friend of mine cured his carpal tunnel by soaking his hands and wrists in hot water for 15 minutes then immediately after soaking them in ice cold water for 15 minutes.

He did this for two years straight!

I do this when I know I overworked my hands and will regret it the next day. Amazingly if I do it that night, the next day I have NO effects of overworking my hands.
You need to do the cold water soak after the hot!!! If you skip the cold soak you will be hurting even more the next day.

An example is when people take hot showers to feel better after they overwork their back then the next day they can't move.

I stretch my hands several times a day when I'm working with a series of 5 stretches. I also do them in the shower in the morning. Just do an Internet search for "Hand stretches" and you'll come up with numerous sites

If your hands really hurt there is a homeopathic cream called "tra-meel" that seems to work for me.

A friend of mine who is a saddle-maker goes to an acupuncturist once a week. He swears by it.

The best solution: get others to do the work for you.

Thanks guys,

After I posted I actually went back out to chisel for another hour, and I never got back online. So I will try the epsom salts, and the hot/cold soak tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.

I will try the Tra-mel if that doesn't work.

Hey Benz, like TikiTony said, "you are the master."

[ Edited by: nice fishy on 2004-03-15 09:30 ]

Benzart, Susane and Atomic are right. Although I'm not a carver myself, I did suffer from carpel tunnel/tendonitis of the wrists and hands. Those tricks are all things I learned in physical therapy.

Essentially:

1. Warm up yours hands, by exercise, moist heating pad or warm soak.
2. Stretch the tendons (using specific stretches for rehabilitation).
3. Strengthen the arm and hand muscles with either isometric exercises and/or weight training.

IMPORTANT: Remember to start small and build up. Do not try to be a hero by lifting the heaviest weight you can. If your hands/arms are already in pain this can cause serious injury!

4. Reduce swelling by icing afterwards.

Remember to keep up your cardiovascular fitness too as it will help with the circulation to your hands which will speed healing.

And lastly, (I also had to go through ergonomics training, so) make sure your workstations are at a proper level for your height. Wrists should be keep as straight as possible, elbows at 90 degrees or lower.

Remember to take breaks to give your muscles a rest (set a timer if necessary). Or at least loosen your grip once in a while and stretch for a few seconds.

The pain won't be gone overnight, but it can improve significantly. Also, if your pain is directly caused by your work, you may be able to get temporary physical therapy paid for through insurance. And even if it's not, it's still worth it not to have to end up with surgery.

By the way, the name of the homeopathic cream is spelled "Traumeel" made by Heel a German company. You can find it in any store that sells homeopathic medicine. I just used it on my lower back (too much hula dancing) and it worked for that too.
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/browse/sku_detail.jhtml?SkuID=10367&BreadCrumbType=SearchResult
Glucosamine and Chondroitin are also helpful in proper doses to relieve pain. (Consult a nutritionist or homeopath for the proper dose for your individual condition.)

Usually it's best to consult a professional occupational or physical therapist for the most complete info on rehabilitation, but this is what worked for me. Hopefully, it will help others in pain who are just trying to earn a living.

Your Friendly Nurse Trixie

[ Edited by: vintagegirl on 2004-03-15 19:59 ]

When I was into power lifting, I exercised my hands the old fashioned way. I got the biggest dumbell I could lift and just held it as long as possible. Deadlifts where you hold the last lift until the fingers give out. The "Farmer's Walk" is to take the boggest dumbells and walk as far as possible before you drop them. They also have those hand work things you can get in various strengths. Most places just have the one, but they are made in different tensions so you can work up to a harder and harder exercise.

I dissagree a bit. I say an ice pack is far better than a hot soak.

Stretching and a warm up is ALWAYS a good idea. Stretch the hands throughout the carving. And take vitasmin supplements.

Thanks Swank and Vintagegirl. Those are some methods I haven't tried yet and believe me I've tried them all. I've had Both thumbs surgically repaired(the Anchovy procedure they call it)within the last year and That finally relieved my thumb pain. the joints were bone against bone caused from years of careless physical abuse to my hands. There is something about carving a piece of wood that sort of takes over. A kind of magical grip that will not let you go until either the piece is done or you hurt too much to continue. There are other things that make you stop awhile like kids, family obligations , sleeping that sort of thing.
Mainly the reason I'm rambling is to concur the point Swank made about Stopping and resting, stretching and excercising during a carving session. You young carvers out there take care of your hands Now. Misuse them and they will fail as would any misused tool.
said enough already.

[ Edited by: Benzart on 2004-03-15 19:17 ]

Swanky the hot water soak gets the circulation going and the cold water soak reduces the swelling. It's the perfect combo after overdoing it. Either one done alone doesn't work.
At one point mine got so bad that I would wake up with both my arms completely numb. It would be an hour before I could even pick up anything. After that I decided to stop doing certain types of work like pave gemstone setting that is really intense on your hands. I also pace my work and take breaks to avoid overdoing things now.

I say cold only because that's what the doctor told me. I had some serious muscle strains, etc. in the weight training and I was told NOT to use the heating pad. Ice, ice baby. This was not a problem specific advice, but for any strain, sprain, spasm or ache. Ice it. Sort of like the heating pad thing was a old wives tale that was not good medicine.

On 2004-03-15 18:35, Swanky wrote:
When I was into power lifting, I exercised my hands the old fashioned way. I got the biggest dumbell I could lift and just held it as long as possible. Deadlifts where you hold the last lift until the fingers give out. The "Farmer's Walk" is to take the boggest dumbells and walk as far as possible before you drop them...

Swanky,

Sorry dude, but I think you advice is very irresponsible. I am absolutely shocked that you would suggest these methods for someone with a hand injury! They MIGHT have been OK for a young guy in top physical shape. But, for suffering hands they would likely shock and strain injured tendons and ligaments even more, and possible cause further damage. I too suffer from similar hand problems as the others and if I followed your suggestion of doing "the farmer's walk" or "the deadlift" my working life would quickly be over.

Your following the "old fashioned way" would likely lead to an "old fashioned" crippling injury like so many professional athletes suffer.

My suggestion to those with problems is to seek a qualified physical therapist. I would not start lifting the heaviest weight you can find until your hands give out-because they might give out for good.

ARRRGHHHH, just thinking about that makes my hands throb!

Read Lawgiver 29:6

[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail on 2004-03-15 20:36 ]

Hands are a very complex mix of things. They aren't just a sore pulled muscle.

On 2004-03-15 20:12, Swanky wrote:
I say cold only because that's what the doctor told me. I had some serious muscle strains, etc. in the weight training and I was told NOT to use the heating pad. Ice, ice baby. This was not a problem specific advice, but for any strain, sprain, spasm or ache. Ice it. Sort of like the heating pad thing was a old wives tale that was not good medicine.

Your advice is fine for sudden injuries, but most of the people in this thread are talking about occupational long-term injuries that require more involved rehabilitaion than just a good icing. Furthermore, if using an "old fashioned" method like lifting super heavy weights works for you, wonderful. But speaking as someone that recovered and avoided surgery through therapy, then I'll stick with using my physical therapists "old wives tale" advice of using heat (when appropriate) that was taught to me about 6 years ago.

On 2004-03-15 20:18, Atomic Cocktail wrote:

On 2004-03-15 18:35, Swanky wrote:
When I was into power lifting, I exercised my hands the old fashioned way. I got the biggest dumbell I could lift and just held it as long as possible. Deadlifts where you hold the last lift until the fingers give out. The "Farmer's Walk" is to take the boggest dumbells and walk as far as possible before you drop them...

Swanky,

Sorry dude, but I think you advice is very irresponsible. I am absolutely shocked that you would suggest these methods for someone with a hand injury! They MIGHT have been OK for a young guy in top physical shape. But, for suffering hands they would likely shock and strain injured tendons and ligaments even more, and possible cause further damage. I too suffer from similar hand problems as the others and if I followed your suggestion of doing "the farmer's walk" or "the deadlift" my working life would quickly be over.

Your following the "old fashioned way" would likely lead to an "old fashioned" crippling injury like so many professional athletes suffer.

My suggestion to those with problems is to seek a qualified physical therapist. I would not start lifting the heaviest weight you can find until your hands give out-because they might give out for good.

ARRRGHHHH, just thinking about that makes my hands throb!

---

Read Lawgiver 29:6

[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail on 2004-03-15 20:36 ]

Your opinion. But not irresponsible. I am not a young athlete in top physical form, but a late 30's guy who devours training methods and reads everything there is and talks to the top trainers and lifters to find out the best methods.

There is nothing wrong with old fashioned methods. They work.

Warm up first. Stretch. Exercise. Stretch.

If you want strong hands, you have to push them to levels they have not had. Whether you are lifting 500 pounds off the ground on a bar, or grabbing a chisel, you want strong hands that are bullet-proof to strain and injury.

The best way to make your hands strong (or any other muscle) is to work it very hard and feed it well. Lift heavy, and eat right. Extended moderate training will not really do this.

Hands are a bit different and complex, but they exercise like other things too. I worked out my hands along with everything else.

What I am talking about is making your hands stronger. This is how to make your hands stronger. I can point you to some training regimens for hands, but they boil down to what I said. It's not crazy, it's proven.

You can carve and get your hands used to it over time, but it might be much better to have hands that are far stronger they they need to be. This will mean that in those moments where you push too far, they is no danger of an injury. And it will mean your hands will absorb a normal days carving like cake, rather than like a full day's carving.

I lifted weights to help with my work. I need to have strong arms to accomplish things like immediately stopping my arm from a sudden slip so I don't gouge the setting graver tools into my other hand or a very expensive gem.

We were discussing treatment of after the fact injury of overworking the hands.

Simple solution, and the only fact that matters. Try the hot soak in Epsom and a cold dunk after on one day. Try an ice pack another. See which feels better the next morning. You have your answer. Nothing better than what works for you.

It isn't just about the feels better for the moment it's about the heals better in the long run.

Basically everyone is on the right track. I speak from experience when I say the Majority of Hand pain sufferers do Not use the proper precautions. No Warm up, no excersize, no stretching. Just go to work and feel the pain and look for a cure. No preventative medicine. If I had done more to Prevent the pain I would not have needed the "cure the pain" regimin.
So here I am carving after 10 years off and getting the old familiar hand pain. This time I will start a stretching and strengthening program before it gets "Out of hand"(no pun intended)

[ Edited by: Benzart on 2004-03-16 08:40 ]

My hands do feel noticably better after soaking in epsom salts, and switching from hot to cold water. I didn't consider carving an excercise before, but it obviously is. So if I'm going to take it serious, and save my hands, I will employ stretching as part of the routine. As far as weight training, those days are behind me. I haven't had time to train seriously since I got married.

fishy, you might just get you one of those grippers things to exercise your hands. Keep it around and on off days (not the day you carve, but before that as much as possible) do a few "sets". Squeeze the thing as many times in a row as possible and rest a few minutes and do it again and again. That's one set. That should be enough for a while. If you are able to squeeze it closed more than 10-15 times in a row on the first try, maybe a stiffer gripper is in order. Smaller muscles can be worked more often (like abs) so you could do 3 sets a day, spread out, on off days and be okay. Just listen to your body and don't have your hands feeling the effects of the gripper when you hit the chisel. So try it and see how fast your hands recover from the exercise so you can be fully recovered when you carve.

Taking breaks often and changing tasks so that you aren't doing the same thing over and over is the best way to prevent the overworking but it's really hard to stop when you are in the mood to work. I alternate things as much as possible instead of piling everything similar to do at once.
I work with the torch, get up and stretch, pliers, hammer, coffee break, computer break, food, sleep(maybe)... mix it up and often...

I think stretching is the best thing you can do to keep in shape. I stretch everyday. When I was 13/14 I read some story about a girl who snapped her hamstrings and it sounded so horrible I decided to stretch and keep things flexible ever since so it wouldn't happen to me. Standing I can place the palms of my hands flat on the floor behind the heels of my feet without bending my knees.
:wink:

Yeah Susane, I guess you Gotta stretch. People don't think of jewelers having hard hand work"Your pieces are sooosmaall,how could you hurt your hand wwith that?" They don't realize the Impacting your hands take or ther strength it takes to push a line precisely thru a gold ring or,,or,or I did jewelry for a year after I quit wood but it turned out Harder in many ways than wood.
Now we know. Stretch , Excercize,,, Eat right,,Take Breaks Regularly.

I haven't had problems with sore hands yet... (knock on a wooden tiki) just blisters from grasping the mallet and chisels... and I've been very good at not cutting myself lately... (once again... knocking on wooden tiki)

Sore biceps and shoulders... yes... sore back... yes...

Most goes with the territory... sometimes the key is moderation...

Hahahah too funny Ben!

Thought your carving area looked familiar!

Jewelry work is very labor intensive. Just check out the tools we use sometime and you'll get the picture. Forging metal into a shape with a hammer is not so easy! I once watched a demonstration of a bowl being raised from a heavy sheet of copper that was truly amazing.
I love it though but I learned to pace myself so I don't burn out. That's the key.

[ Edited by: susane on 2005-03-13 03:39 ]

Susane yes it's a Small world. I Mostly worked with Wax and Titanium sheets.Here are a few of the waxes I never had cast.



and the first piece I did for the company that got me the job

I know it isn't tiki, but it is part of my history and enabled me to do the work I'm doing now.
By the way, I just got back from a trip around Susanes website. Wheew, what a site.

[ Edited by: Benzart on 2004-03-17 07:36 ]

[ Edited by: Benzart on 2004-03-19 07:59 ]

Bump!

Lots of new carvers here (myself included) and it's been almost 4 years since this thread was at the top.

I bring this up because I've concluded that the joint damage in my left hand is probably carving related. Not sure what I'm going to do about it now, but there may be things new carvers can do to help prevent this sort of thing.

And NO, it's not going to stop me from carving!

Anyone out there a real doctor??

Help me with my foot cramps!!!!!

Summer good. Winter BAD!!!

One day I got up and couldn't wrap my fingers around the handle of the coffee pot. I knew I was in trouble! Seriously, I have heard about and used the heat cold method on numerous body parts. Heat to keep the blood flowing, cold for swelling. 10 mins. each. Ice immediately after an injury or a sprain keeps the swelling down, and then heat/ice..heat/ice for maintenance. Lots of water helps keep the muscles and joints lubricated. After the coffee pot incident I took B6....water soluble, can't OD...it worked really fast...never happened again.

p.s. RBB...try eating more bananas....potassium is great for leg and foot cramps...also good for the heart.

As a nurse...just had to weigh in here, but nurse Trixie has ya covered and everyone has really great suggestions. Workstation ergonomics is definitely important since prevention of injury is critical. Heat and cold is the best care like has been described here.

You might also try a hot wax treatment (which is used in most hand therapy programs). It will provide the "deep" heat that you need and also keep your skin soft.

Take Care :)