We need to talk about your kitsch problem...

2 cents:

Tiki is so far removed from actual Polynesian culture that complaints about "appropriation" seem very out-of place. Perhaps if we were celebrating Polynesian holidays or in some way even referencing legitimate religious rites I could see a point, but, we're not. What do we celebrate? The anniversary of Don the Beachcomber opening. It's so far removed from reality. It is fantasy in every sense. And we have no illusions about this either, right? It's not like Tiki pretends to be actual Polynesian culture.

I feel the last couple strips from Cat and Girl are strangely germane to this topic.

http://catandgirl.com/son-of-son-of-jelly-jar/
http://catandgirl.com/tk/

[ Edited by: Bam Bam 2017-06-01 10:28 ]

There seems to be a similarity with the country/western wear world. People who don't work on ranches and who don't wrangle cattle and who may have never touched a real horse or cow ever in their lives drive pickup trucks and show up at country/western dance clubs dressed in elaborate clothing.

Also, how many shriners have been to a real shrine?

How many masons have actually lain masonry?

This madness must stop, I tell you! :)

How many miners are under 18?

Wow, lots of thought fodder here. Makes me wonder...If I was friends with someone of Polynesian descent, would I be concerned that they might be offended by my tiki room? Probably, but if we are friends I would hope that I could have a heartfelt and candid conversation with them to explain that it is all Walt Disney's fault for brainwashing me at such a young age. :wink:

But more seriously, discussion and respect, rather than arguments and score keeping, seem to be the best approach to explaining why I am into tiki. A true friend should give you that much.

As for commercial tiki bar owners and those profiting from it, I dunno. Tiki culture has waned before for less damning cultural moodswings, but it also came back. Ebb and tide, indeed. :)

I was talking with Adrian ("PolynesianPop"), this weekend after recording an episode for his podcast, relating to him that I used to see a tee shirt in the fashion boutiques in LA which had a modern picture of two Japanese greasers with their hair up, wearing leather jackets, and leaning on some big American motorbikes... The caption read, "Japan does America better."

It then occurred to me, the amount of cultural appropriation that is done by people other than Americans by dressing 'rockabilly.' Rockabilly is an inherently American creation, birthed out of the South and merging hillbilly music with rock 'n roll. And you know what I said to Adrian? When I see something like that, I'm flattered. I'm flattered that someone from another country enjoys something that came from OUR culture so much that they want to dress it, perform music from it, live it.

People who get exasperated about cultural appropriation are primarily looking for a fight so that they can feel morally superior to others.

On 2017-06-05 09:23, Luckydesigns wrote:
I was talking with Adrian ("PolynesianPop"), this weekend after recording an episode for his podcast, relating to him that I used to see a tee shirt in the fashion boutiques in LA which had a modern picture of two Japanese greasers with their hair up, wearing leather jackets, and leaning on some big American motorbikes... The caption read, "Japan does America better."

It then occurred to me, the amount of cultural appropriation that is done by people other than Americans by dressing 'rockabilly.' Rockabilly is an inherently American creation, birthed out of the South and merging hillbilly music with rock 'n roll. And you know what I said to Adrian? When I see something like that, I'm flattered. I'm flattered that someone from another country enjoys something that came from OUR culture so much that they want to dress it, perform music from it, live it.

People who get exasperated about cultural appropriation are primarily looking for a fight so that they can feel morally superior to others.

Nailed it Spike!

Honestly, I can understand the initial "sting" of feeling that your heritage is being appropriated in some less than savory way. But what I don't understand is the follow up action.

Case in point: Many of my ancestors were Louisiana Cajuns. Cuisine was a big part of my culture and upbringing. I have noticed that there is a chain restaurant in lots of shopping mall food courts called "Cajun Express". Their food is anything but Cajun...more like Americanised Chinese food at best.

The first time I made the mistake of trying their "Bourbon" chicken, I was disgusted that they had the nerve to call it Cajun. And of course, I'd be the first to warn friends not to eat there if they are looking for authentic Cajun food.

But would I demand that the store owners have their business be "banished"? No.

This started off more as a discussion of authenticity and “junk tiki” and has seriously morphed into an analysis of cultural appropriation, which is a topic I tire of quickly -- especially when applied to the Tiki Realm. This subject should be about style, relaxing and having fun – not about making or trying to defend yourself from political views.

In terms of quality and authenticity, I’m not afraid to admit that my tolerance is pretty broad. It’s important to remember that a lot of people—especially when they are first introduced to the style—may not have access to “the best of what’s available.” They may have to settle for a little kitsch at the outset, since what can be purchased at a party or discount store may be all that they can find, until they are 1) better educated, or 2) have the $ to buy a nice, hand-carved tiki. I went through this myself; I set up a decorative garden focal point at the end of my pool, and the first think I could find was a Party City tiki mask that I stapled to a 36” high 1” x 10” that I stuck in the ground. It didn’t last long, but it helped set the scene for a while. I also purchased a fair amount of discount-store items until they were eventually replaced with something better, but I still keep a few out – just for fun.

I have an outdoor bar on the deck, but tend to go for the darker (brown) tiki-look instead of the light bamboo-and-thatch stuff. I mix in Hawaiiana, too – as I feel it blends well, and I don’t draw a hard line between the looks, which most of my visitors cannot discern anyway. I avoid Caribbean stuff, but while I do have a few surf-themed items, they are generally in the vein of Duke Kahanamoku and not The Endless Summer, if you know what I mean. For the most part, it all looks good together and pleases me, which is all that matters. As time goes on, I will continue to add better stuff – and also continue to make my own.

My biggest problem right now is that my wife has taken a strong liking to pink flamingoes, which I have tried to address by keeping them far away from the bar and toward the periphery of our backyard. This ranges from towels on the chaises, a plastic one stuck out in the garden and another small garden light to a bright neon light that I have banished to the top of a beer cooler at the far end of the garage. So far, so good – I’m holding my breath hoping she doesn’t bring any more home…

On 2017-06-05 10:08, AkronTiki wrote:

It’s important to remember that a lot of people—especially when they are first introduced to the style—may not have access to “the best of what’s available.” They may have to settle for a little kitsch at the outset, since what can be purchased at a party or discount store may be all that they can find, until they are 1) better educated, or 2) have the $ to buy a nice, hand-carved tiki. I went through this myself; I set up a decorative garden focal point at the end of my pool, and the first think I could find was a Party City tiki mask that I stapled to a 36” high 1” x 10” that I stuck in the ground. It didn’t last long, but it helped set the scene for a while. I also purchased a fair amount of discount-store items until they were eventually replaced with something better, but I still keep a few out – just for fun.

Don't we all go through this cycle? You just learn about Tiki, maybe just got back from a trip to Disneyland where you fell in love with the Enchanted Tiki Room and Jungle Cruise, and you go on the hunt buying any Tiki mug you can find, which usually ends up being something by Accoutrements or Archie McPhee? And then when you learn more, develop a proper palate, and refine your own particular style and interests (Fantasy Tiki and some heavy Disney influence for me!) you curate your collection better and offload your old Accoutrements and Archie McPhee "starter kit" onto the next person just starting out? :)

Me: Real Polynesian culture isn't harmed by Tiki.

Also me: That Party City crap is commercialized and tacky and is giving real Tiki a bad name.

Don't ask me how I reconcile those two points of view.

Bad news sells.
And whining pays these days.

On 2017-06-04 21:42, tikitube wrote:
Wow, lots of thought fodder here. Makes me wonder...If I was friends with someone of Polynesian descent, would I be concerned that they might be offended by my tiki room? Probably, but if we are friends I would hope that I could have a heartfelt and candid conversation with them to explain that it is all Walt Disney's fault for brainwashing me at such a young age. :wink:

But more seriously, discussion and respect, rather than arguments and score keeping, seem to be the best approach to explaining why I am into tiki. A true friend should give you that much.

As for commercial tiki bar owners and those profiting from it, I dunno. Tiki culture has waned before for less damning cultural moodswings, but it also came back. Ebb and tide, indeed. :)

This comment caused me to decide to go from lurker to poster here. Not only am I friends with somebody of Polynesian decent, I'm family with multiple people. My aunt is of Hawaiian heritage and my cousins are half Hawaiian. (technically she's not my aunt, she was my mom's college roommate, but since travelling home to Hawaii was not realistic at the holidays my grandmother all but officially adopted her and I was raised thinking she was as much an aunt as my Mom's actual sister) Also my sister's husband is 3/4th Hawaiian so my nephews are almost half Hawaiian. I'm also friends with some of my brother-in-law's family and have other friends who were raised on Hawaii (some with Hawaiian heritage, some not).

Because of this, even before this thread, I have been thinking about this topic. I talked with my aunt a bit about it and others, referencing the original article in this thread, and what I learned is first of all there are bigger battles to fight than tiki bars. Secondly that as long as the people involved respect the difference between Polynesian culture and having fun in the tiki fantasy setting my concerns are largely unwarranted.

Makes sense. Glad my comment inspired you to sign up. Welcome. :)

What people may or may not know is cultural appropriation and even “science” is some times a business.
You do a study on say Coconut oil for the people who make vegetable oil and lo and behold they find Coconut oil is bad for you and movie theaters stop using Coconut oil so veg oil sales go up.
Years later Coconut oil is found not to be bad for you.

Same with cultural appropriation a group is formed they have demands to make it all better, many times these demands are in the form of money, jobs, new cultural centers at some College or big company.
Money makes all boo boos better.
I learned this while working at one of these Colleges for many years.

Good news does not sell, but you can get funding, sell books ect all day long about how the sky is falling.

The Government, big companies and other nations pay College departments to do these studies, it is BIG money and you don’t want to rock the boat and tell these people who are paying you news they don’t like. Any fact can be tweaked, set aside or ignored altogether to lean your way, or even lie like they did with coconut oil.

If a professor gets lots of grants or money for studies colleges WANT them, they will fight to get him or her and pay them lots more.
If you don’t do well in the funding part as a professor it can be harder for you to get a job or good pay.

Remember the 70s?
The gas shortages, the ecology flag, the best one was the trapper keeper with death on a bull dozer mowing down all kinds of bunnies and deer or the Indian guy with the tear in his eye.
Weell by the year 2000 we were all going to be dead and living in the dark with rampant pollution no gas, power or cars.
The lights are still on, but somebody made a ton on that ecology flag.

They will never stop until the money in the sky is falling business goes away.
And that may never happen.

Came across this article tonight:

Tiki bar stirs up cocktail of accusations - Corvallis Gazette

[ Edited by: DixonAlibi 2017-06-30 22:01 ]

This is all Cy the tiki carvers fault.
Cy you gotta whip those Oregon folks in shape.
Wait don't do that they may come after you next as you do cultural appropriation style tiki.

Going to have to call them White man statue things.

How many "residents of Polynesian ancestry" are there in Oregon anyway?
I know it did not seem like there were many of Polynesian ancestry in Hawaii when we went even.

Too bad, what a crock!

Pacific Islands Americans - Wikipedia....

Pacific Islands Americans. ... Pacific Islander Americans make up 0.5% of the U.S. population including those with partial Pacific Islander ancestry, enumerating about 1.4 million people. The largest ethnic subgroups of Pacific Islander Americans are Native Hawaiians, Samoans, Chamorros, Fijians, Marshallese and Tongans.

So like KFC that is American right?
You know Colonel Sanders from Kentucky, Man that is full blown American culture.

KFC Christmas chicken is a holiday tradition in Japan.
You have to order your KFC Christmas dinner a month or more in advance!
Japanese people owning a KFC, selling KFC to Japanese and others.

Are you pissed?
They even have videos where they dress up a Colonel Sanders statue all goofy and
Defame him.
Not like a cartoon tiki, but stuff that you would not want done with your likeness after you die.

Are you mad? Does this piss you off?
Should we no longer allow Japanese people to own and make the food of my heritage?
Should people that do make and or own a KFC need to be from Kentucky?

This does not upset me but for the fact that people are going too far with this cultural appropriation Crap.
I think it's cool to see the twist they put on our KFC restaurants, food.

Nine times out of ten its people protesting that have no ties to the issue other than they are concerned protesters for change.

KFC Christmas chicken...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpxcXwne-fY

On 2017-06-30 21:56, DixonAlibi wrote:
Came across this article tonight:

Tiki bar stirs up cocktail of accusations - Corvallis Gazette

[ Edited by: DixonAlibi 2017-06-30 22:01 ]

Too bad that he caved, because literally nothing happens if you don't.

On 2017-07-01 07:45, EnchantedTikiGoth wrote:

On 2017-06-30 21:56, DixonAlibi wrote:
Came across this article tonight:

Tiki bar stirs up cocktail of accusations - Corvallis Gazette

[ Edited by: DixonAlibi 2017-06-30 22:01 ]

Too bad that he caved, because literally nothing happens if you don't.

The space was previously occupied by a Irish pub. No mention if that was closed down because they were appropriating Irish culture, but I'd guess probably not.

howlinowl

B.S. Some people would protest a fart. Damn!

The moral of the story seems to be that I can't like something because I'm white and wasn't born there...

To follow that logic, I'd like to take back St Patrick's Day celebrations, Guinness, the appreciation of scotch, Christmas, kilts, Newfie jokes, Screech, anything culturally significant from England (oh wait that's how all this started), and a deep love of potatoes. Because all of those things are part of my cultural heritage. Shoot I was pretty proud that Newfie screech made it into Smugglers Cove, but I guess they need to remove it and reprint to book...

We bastardize our own culture to change with the times and we steal from ourselves because we appreciate and/or enjoy something and we freely share all of those things with other cultures. I think part of living in a global multicultural society is appreciating other cultures....what is so wrong with that? Is it just because I'm white? That's pretty sad.

Of course, I'm not emulating Polynesian culture, I'm celebrating the idealized version of it as thought up by people who probably never saw it...

Just for some perspective, does anyone know specifically what is causing the offense? Is it the mere existence of a tiki bar, or using island imagery and artifacts as decor, or is it the use of big white buck toothed sunglass-wearing 'joe cool' tiki imagery?
Because there is some precedent for the latter being seen as insensitive. But would the protesters be offended at a place like the Mai Kai, or Vic's, where they celebrate the culture and origins, even while making it their own?

if hawaii can culturally appropriate spam, i can do tiki

By looking at the rum behind my bar I have inadvertently appropriated the entire Caribbean island chain and a good chunk of South America,

On 2017-07-01 09:24, Piddersthecat wrote:
To follow that logic, I'd like to take back St Patrick's Day celebrations, Guinness, the appreciation of scotch, Christmas, kilts, Newfie jokes, Screech, anything culturally significant from England (oh wait that's how all this started), and a deep love of potatoes. Because all of those things are part of my cultural heritage. Shoot I was pretty proud that Newfie screech made it into Smugglers Cove, but I guess they need to remove it and reprint to book...

We bastardize our own culture to change with the times and we steal from ourselves because we appreciate and/or enjoy something and we freely share all of those things with other cultures. I think part of living in a global multicultural society is appreciating other cultures....what is so wrong with that? Is it just because I'm white? That's pretty sad.

Well no, because Irish people are white, and white people are all the same and don't have a culture. Also, as a Canadian, you're not allowed to enjoy your own culture because of colonialism. At least, that's what all of social media has been telling me today. You're also not allowed to enjoy things from other cultures either, because that's bad for some reason. Basically, nobody is allowed to enjoy anything, and we should all be humourless, joyless, sanctimonious scolds.

I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE

Well apparently my white privilege has gotten me no where :/ and as a Canadian, I'd be obligated to yell sorry for being mad as hell and yell sorry for yelling :wink:

But I do wish that people wouldn't suck the joy out of things...ffs. If I had a child who watched Moana and wanted a Moana bedroom, no one would care...perhaps that's what I'll tell people, it's a Moana bedroom for my cat!

Happy Canada Day!

...
My biggest problem right now is that my wife has taken a strong liking to pink flamingoes, which I have tried to address by keeping them far away from the bar and toward the periphery of our backyard. This ranges from towels on the chaises, a plastic one stuck out in the garden and another small garden light to a bright neon light that I have banished to the top of a beer cooler at the far end of the garage. So far, so good – I’m holding my breath hoping she doesn’t bring any more home…

When I was a kid my parents took me and my sister to the top of the El Cortez/San Diego for our first cocktails (Shirley Temples) and I was instantly hooked on the whole bar genre. I was fascinated by the environment, the cocktail glasses, the coasters, the straws, the fruity decor...and the bar was like seeing the city of Oz for me. My parents weren't drinkers,but when I would go to other friend's houses, they would have delightful bars and I was in awe. But my favorite of all time had to be the Bali Hai/San Diego. I used to hang around at the hotels on Shelter island as a kid and it felt so wonderful to be wrapped in the Palms, Rubber Trees, Birds of Paradise, the nautical fringes, the beautiful San Diego Bay. Mr Bali Hai was a God to me...he beckoned me inside for more awesome treasures. Dad took us to Disneyland every summer and the Tiki Tiki Tiki Room was a favorite. I felt that same comfort wrapped in tropical splendor. When I was of age,my friends and eventually the ex and I went to the Hanlei many times and the Polynesian splendor was overwhelmingly calling me to feel that blending of the tropics, cocktails, and music...it was comforting and familiar.

Fast forward and life takes many turns. I had forgotten about the comfort I had in the bar, Tiki, tropical, socializing atmosphere. But some things I clung to. Before I ever knew of the Tiki community I would buy exotica music and tropical decor. After my divorce I shopped frequently at thrift and antique stores. I found a large 60's rattan/bamboo bar with stools and put it in my garage.

My friend and I went to Kauai once and I loved the exotica music they played on the plane so I looked it up when I got back home and all that searching lead me to TC. I was sold, it all came together for me. I never was much for anything from Party City so thankfully missed that mistake. I learned a lot from the TC community. I was saddened when new people posted "bad" Tiki and were admonished by the experts. I am certainly guilty of complementing the struggling home bar posters. I got in big trouble myself for hanging my Vontiki bike form the ceiling in my lounge, but I defended it as a piece of art. I went to a few events (Tiki Oasis, Tiki Caliente and crawls) and met many new friends and linked with other Tikiphiles in Sacramento. I realized I would never be an expert but I learned a lot from Wendy & Dan, Duane, Mark and Mike. Looking at their decor and collections helped to guide me in the right direction.

I have to say that over the years I have truly grown to appreciate our purists and folks that blend their collections with their other passions. I too have an unending love of Flamingos. Thankfully I won't be mixing them in with the Tiki, but am going to have them take center stage in my 50's diner style kitchen (a work in progress). I cringe when I read articles by self-proclaimed experts that don't seem to "get" Tiki, so I guess I have learned a little.

Couldn't have made it this far without Sven/BOT, Les Baxter/my personal Vibe fetish, Forbidden Island/Monkeypod, all the wonderful Tiki artists, the awesomeness of the El Cortez, and mostly the Bali Hai.

In a nutshell, I'm living my childhood over as an adult.

On 2017-07-01 07:45, EnchantedTikiGoth wrote:
Too bad that he caved, because literally nothing happens if you don't.

Yep, in a week or 2 things would blow over and all would be forgotten. I remember reading the article and when the owner mentioned he "made a mistake" I wanted to give him and hug and say "no, they're wrong dude."

On 2017-07-01 12:14, happy buddha wrote:
Just for some perspective, does anyone know specifically what is causing the offense? Is it the mere existence of a tiki bar, or using island imagery and artifacts as decor, or is it the use of big white buck toothed sunglass-wearing 'joe cool' tiki imagery?
Because there is some precedent for the latter being seen as insensitive. But would the protesters be offended at a place like the Mai Kai, or Vic's, where they celebrate the culture and origins, even while making it their own?

The latter was definitely part of the issue. From the article:

Davidson said that residents of Polynesian ancestry, including those with the Oregon State University Asian and Pacific Cultural Center, complained about a combination of factors such as the use of a Hawaiian name, traditional iconography displayed in a cartoonish way, and how plastic leis were handed off to customers.

Personally, I tend to get offended by these cartoonish Tikis too!

Haka: agreed!

"Personally, I tend to get offended by these cartoonish Tikis too!"

Like this?

Or maybe this....

Could be these too.

This dress offended people so much they paid $700.00 for it.

And what is next?
People protesting the fact that Shag does mostly white people in his art?

Maybe fat people will get mad too as mostly thin size 4s only make in his art as well.
Heck even real life people who are put in Shags art are like way smaller in size
when done by Shag.

NONE of this bugs me, just saying that anyone can get "offended" by something in what you do.

ARE you next?
Is what you do the next thing that must be stopped!

Heck cartoonish tiki offend people of Polynesian ancestry the folk that gave us Kill Haole Day.

Kill Haole Day is full blown in your face no kinda offensive.

This madness has to stop.

Kill Haole Day From Wikipedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Haole_Day

“I also never heard whether the holiday had occasioned any actual homicides.”

"Finnegan says people told him the main targets of Kill A Haole Day were off-duty servicemen hanging out in Waikiki and Chinatown, but I have never seen any proof of that."

I agree Skip, acting upon being offended by something is wrong. Hapuna Kahuna should have been left alone. People are free to like and dislike what they choose and voicing it is fine.

Maybe you don't agree with me, and that's okay, but to me, Shag is fine and I still don't like Party City Tiki. Bleeaah!

On 2017-07-04 12:21, Hakalugi wrote:
I agree Skip, acting upon being offended by something is wrong.

I honestly can't believe somebody just wrote that. So you're suggesting the various racist, sexist, and derogatory images over the years of blacks, Asians, Indians, Irish, Italians, women, Jews, Muslims, and many other groups should have been allowed to exist with no calls for removal, boycotts, etc? Really?

On 2017-07-04 12:57, JasonMa wrote:

On 2017-07-04 12:21, Hakalugi wrote:
I agree Skip, acting upon being offended by something is wrong.

I honestly can't believe somebody just wrote that. So you're suggesting the various racist, sexist, and derogatory images over the years of blacks, Asians, Indians, Irish, Italians, women, Jews, Muslims, and many other groups should have been allowed to exist with no calls for removal, boycotts, etc? Really?

He's referring to a TIKI BAR...on TIKI CENTRAL.

On 2017-07-04 13:43, Or Got Rum? wrote:

On 2017-07-04 12:57, JasonMa wrote:

On 2017-07-04 12:21, Hakalugi wrote:
I agree Skip, acting upon being offended by something is wrong.

I honestly can't believe somebody just wrote that. So you're suggesting the various racist, sexist, and derogatory images over the years of blacks, Asians, Indians, Irish, Italians, women, Jews, Muslims, and many other groups should have been allowed to exist with no calls for removal, boycotts, etc? Really?

He's referring to a TIKI BAR...on TIKI CENTRAL.

OK, that makes a little more sense if that's the case. In the context of the post I wasn't really sure.

I'm not sure I agree with the statement in that context but its not an unbelievable statement.

Jason, I mean acting out in a physical sense is wrong (unless it's self defense). Of course people are free to speak out and boycott however they want. Using physical actions to show that you are offended, such as hitting, injuring, or "killing a Haole" is wrong. Right?

And yes, as Or Got Rum pointed out. We are talking Tiki here.

Yeah Hakalugi I don't like Party City tiki as well.
What I was trying to say is there are many levels of what people would call cartoony tiki.

I like most of the images I posted, love Shag, Love Bosko.
But you know that they would fall into the cartoony category if a person wanted to put them there.

It feels like people are just looking REALLY hard to find something, ANY thing that could offend them.

So is the Wigwam Motel next?
http://www.wigwammotel.com/

On 2017-07-04 14:53, Hakalugi wrote:
Jason, I mean acting out in a physical sense is wrong (unless it's self defense). Of course people are free to speak out and boycott however they want. Using physical actions to show that you are offended, such as hitting, injuring, or "killing a Haole" is wrong. Right?

And yes, as Or Got Rum pointed out. We are talking Tiki here.

That makes more sense. :)

We have the final solution for anyone who has any kind of PC problem with tiki at all.

Just serve them a Red Pill Cocktail and call it a night!

It always works, but Don the Beachcomber suggests not having it on an empty stomach

[ Edited by: mike and marie 2017-07-09 19:19 ]

On 2017-07-04 20:10, tikiskip wrote:
Yeah Hakalugi I don't like Party City tiki as well.
What I was trying to say is there are many levels of what people would call cartoony tiki.

I like most of the images I posted, love Shag, Love Bosko.
But you know that they would fall into the cartoony category if a person wanted to put them there.

It feels like people are just looking REALLY hard to find something, ANY thing that could offend them.

So is the Wigwam Motel next?
http://www.wigwammotel.com/

And this is exactly my point. We can't look at this from our perspective, nor can we do the whole "have a Mai Tai and chill out" thing. From the non-Tikiphile perspective, this shit is ugly and so are we. It is easy picking. Cartoony depictions of religious and culturally significant artifacts: check. Objectification of women as purely sex objects: check ...

And then we top it off with the old white guy "What's next, you won't be able to offend anyone?" thing and BAM, Tiki is defacto out. Sign carrying young people out front, or more likely, #stoptiki or some other hash tag starts...

On 2017-07-10 06:22, Swanky wrote:
And this is exactly my point. We can't look at this from our perspective, nor can we do the whole "have a Mai Tai and chill out" thing. From the non-Tikiphile perspective, this shit is ugly and so are we. It is easy picking. Cartoony depictions of religious and culturally significant artifacts: check. Objectification of women as purely sex objects: check ...

And then we top it off with the old white guy "What's next, you won't be able to offend anyone?" thing and BAM, Tiki is defacto out. Sign carrying young people out front, or more likely, #stoptiki or some other hash tag starts...

...And then shit all happens. As I said before, if you offend these people, NOTHING happens.

I agree that "what's next, can't we offend anybody, you're being to sensitive" is a bad argument to make. It just makes you look like an insensitive, entitled jerk, and that is about the worst way to respond to people who hold feelings, sensitivity, and victimization as their primary virtue. I mean, insofar as nothing happens if you offend them. So I'd refer back to the strategizing I wrote out before... Don't play on their terms, challenge their terms. Reframe the discussion. Delegitimize their arguments. Assert your own dignity and rights.

So, with all this talk about people being offended... I just saw an article that Disney, in their Pirates of the Caribbean attractions around the world, has decided to remove the wench auction scenes. But they are leaving the scenes featuring arson, greed, stealing, drunkenness, torture, murder, rifling and pillaging and plundering and looting, and an assorted array of other fun stuff. Drink up, me hearties!

:)

Something I point out to folks who enjoy dressing up and playing pirate!

You can bet that the fat stupid drunk Disney Pirate is still a white guy.
We are too lazy to rise up and protest.

But this kind of thing will make people think twice about risking the hassle of an angry PC mob at their door and just do a different type of bar restaurant than tiki.

Have to wonder where this will end, the 60s had the same kind of protests going on and all seamed to be civil unrest.
Then the 70s and 80s came along and that went to the wayside.

I would even take disco over this damn rap that won't go away.

On 2017-07-10 16:20, tikiskip wrote:

I would even take disco over this damn rap that won't go away.

I just got a disco version of "Quiet Village."