the ideal Mai Tai formula?

Hello to All,
I was in Newport Beach a couple of weeks ago for a wedding where I asked the bartender for a Singapore Sling. His response, "what is that?". I walked away thoroughly disgusted.
This sad event led me to start thinking about some of my favorite drinks and how there are many different recipes out there for mai tai's. Which seems to be the most popular formula here in the forum?
thanks
and bottoms up!

Where did you go in Newport? There aren't a whole lotta places here that would know how to make a Sling.

Here's the tried and true formula for a Mai Tai as served at Trader Vics.

1 1/2oz. fresh squeezed lime juice
1/2oz. curacao
1/4oz. orgeat syrup
1/4oz. rock candy syrup
1oz. Jamaican rum (I use Myers)
1oz. Martinique rum (I use Mt. Gay)

Mix together in a glass with crushed ice and the spent lime shell. If you want to go the distance, garnish with a fresh mint sprig.

A couple of these will light you up. Enjoy!

Here is Franklin Eck's recipe ... mmmm:

1 ounce orange curacao
1/2 ounce orange orgeat syrup
2 ounces freshly squeezed lime juice, 1/4 spent lime reserved
2 ounces dark rum
1 ounce golden rum
Dash of Angostura Bitters

Fill your favorite mug with ice and add liquid ingredients. Cover with a cocktail shaker and shake to blend. Garnish with a sprig of mint, a maraschino cherry, a wedge of pineapple and the reserved 1/4 lime.

I'd go for Victor Bergeron's recipe. Anything else could not correctly be called a Mai Tai. And you'll never call me a "real dirty stinker" :)

Yep, Trader Vic's is the way to go, I'm still recovering from my Mai Tai fest on the 4th. Although I have the recipe as being 3/4 ounce of Orange Curacao... Anyway, as long as you have your Orget, you won't go wrong!
Aloha,
:tiki:

People, we all know that Trader Vic invented the mai tai, right?

This topic comes up a lot and I think I've made my opinion known more times than I care to think about...

LuckyD, thanks for beating me to the punch and putting forth the ONLY true Mai Tai recipe, but be careful with that lime juice - 1 1/2 oz is a lot!! Just stick with 'the juice of 1 lime' and you should be fine.

Oh, and I use Mt. Gay Barbados Sugar Cane for my "every day" Mai Tais, but for special occasions, St. James Hors d'Age is the only way to go...

And what is 'orange orgeat'?

Yeah, that 'juice of one lime' usually works out to about 1 1/2oz of juice if you really wring out a big lime. Plus, sometimes if you end up with limes that are less than juicy you can fall short and throw the balance off. Don't get me wrong, if there is one guy that really knows how to cook up a mai tai, it's the Doc.

http://www.recipegoldmine.com/ccD/d72.html

I can never find the Orgeat, so I try to make my own. I know that I use more syrup than I should, but everyone seems to like them better that way. Of course, as the night goes on, my measurements can start to vary widely, so...no two are alike! }:)

Hi,

The following recipe depends on if you can find the ingredients. But I guarantee you, that it will produce the best Mai Tai you have ever tasted.
Kaniche Martinique rum is so good, my friends and I are thinking of burying 4 bottles in a time capsule for the day you can't get it anymore. (It's what I should have done back when I could still get Sazarac Falernum.) If you find Kaniche Martinique rum in your liquor store, buy it -- whatever the cost.

Behold...

1 1/2oz. fresh squeezed lime juice
1/2oz. Bols Orange Curacao
1/2oz. Trader Vic's orgeat syrup
1/4oz. sugar syrup (made with Turbinado sugar)
1/2oz. Myers
1/2oz. Whalers
1 oz. Kaniche Martinique Rum

Shake with ice and add to a glass containing crushed ice, fresh pineapple, cherry and mint.

[ Edited by: I, Zombie on 2003-07-14 21:10 ]

I'm with you on everything but that Whaler's swill. Awful, cheap rum.

I wouldn't call it swill. I think the Whaler's Rare Reserve Dark is a good, slightly sweet rum -- though I cannot speak for their flavored rums which simply scare me.

I'm curious, has anyone sponsored a Mai Tai making contest at any of the tiki events held around the country? Big names in the tiki world could be judges. I think it could be a great event!

[ Edited by: I, Zombie on 2003-07-14 21:32 ]

I'm not sure the brands matter much on anything but the Rum. Aren't orgeats and curacaos pretty much all the same? I favor St. James Martinique rum (always more than the recipe calls for) and either Lemon Hart Demerara (I know it's unorthodox, but good) or Cruzan Light. Or napthol, after a few rounds. As for decor, mint & lime work for Trader Vic, so that's enuff for me.

On 2003-07-14 21:17, Basement Kahuna wrote:
I'm with you on everything but that Whaler's swill. Awful, cheap rum.

I have to agree with Basement Kahuna on this one. Whaler's is made in a factory in California, is artificially flavored and colored, and tastes awful. Myers' is also caramel colored but is at least from Jamaica and tasty.

I wouldn't use either Myers' or Whaler's in a Mai Tai. I prefer my Mai Tai with aged gold rum. A combination of Martinique and Jamaican is best and true to Trader Vic's original recipe. Whaler's or Myers' would dominate the flavor too much in my opinion.

Kava King wrote:

I'm not sure the brands matter much on anything but the Rum. Aren't orgeats and curacaos pretty much all the same?

Not according to Trader Vic (and I would tend to agree). His original recipe called for specific brands of curacao and orgeat (which are now unavailable). It would be interesting (but expensive) to do a taste test of various curacaos (Bols, Hiram Walker, Marie Brizard, etc.) and orgeats and see which taste best.

Thanks for the info on Whaler's. Though I don't have a problem with it in the Mai Tai I make, I'm always interested in learning about different rums. I'll try some of the substitutions mentioned. However, do try the Kaniche if you can find it.

Also, not to be a 'dirty stinker' but Trader Vic also said: "I originally held that it was better to make each individual drink. But with the changes in time and bars, I have changed my recommendations. Now I advise you to use mixes. they're usually good, they're fast, and they're consistent." (31-32, Revised Bartender's Guide). I think we all can agree that Vic's Mai-Tai mix is terrible, and he sacrificed quality to mass produce drinks. But hey, he was a business man. My point is, that as times change (and rums and other ingredients no longer are available) recipes change. I don't think you have to stick to the letter when it comes to making Mai Tais, as long as what you make can reasonably meet the definition and is excellent in taste.

I, Zombie

p.s. I'm really curious about that recipe using the bitters!

Aloha,
I hope you don't mind but I thought I de-lurk here and jump in. (Been Luking a few weeks)
Call me Reg.
I have 3 bottles of Curacaos Hiram Walker,Leroux and Dekuper so I though I would do a quick taste test. (any excuse to try out my new shot glasses)
Here is what I found.

Hiram Walker:
15% or 30 Proof
Aroma: most natural orange scent
Flavor: Some what watered down tasting

Leroux
27% or 54 Proof
Aroma: more like a Brandy with a hint of fruit
Flavor: Smooth but you can just taste the alcohol

Dekuper
27% or 54 Proof
Aroma: Similar to Leroux more Brandy like
Flavor: Also Smooth with a hint of wood possibly Oak

I Prefer Leroux but Dekuper will also do. But Hiram Walker only as a last resort.

Thanks Blank Reg for the taste test results. I'll look for other brands besides Hiram Walker from now on.

Excellent post, Reg!

I'd be interested in what you think of Bols. I've had great luck with their orange and blue Curacao.

I just scored a bottle of Marie Brizard Curacao. I was told that it is the best. It may be to good for mixing, but what the heck? I also use Lemon Hart Rum. A sprig of Mint is a must, and I would never use a cherry. I've yet to go to a bar that uses a sprig of mint.

Cheers,

KT

[i]On 2003-07-06 20:00, Luckydesigns wrote:
Here's the tried and true formula for a Mai Tai as served at Trader Vics.

1 1/2oz. fresh squeezed lime juice
1/2oz. curacao
1/4oz. orgeat syrup
1/4oz. rock candy syrup
1oz. Jamaican rum (I use Myers)
1oz. Martinique rum (I use Mt. Gay)

Mix together in a glass with crushed ice and the spent lime shell. If you want to go the distance, garnish with a fresh mint sprig.

A couple of these will light you up. Enjoy!

Right you are LD, Victor J. Bergeron has Registered the formula,and any other chemistry cannot be called a Mai Tai.
I'm sure everyone's "design" in the world tastes great, but they simply need to find another name for it. If I ordered a Ferrari, I don't expect to get a Ford Pinto

My choice of Ingredients(yes it is somewhat stereotype)
1 1/2oz. fresh squeezed lime juice
1/2oz. curacao (I use DeKuyper)
1/4oz. orgeat syrup (I use TRADER VIC'S)
1/4oz. rock candy syrup (I use TRADER VIC'S)
1oz. Jamaican rum (I use TRADER VIC'S AUTHENTIC DARK RUM
Barbados)
1oz. Martinique rum (I use CRUZAN SINGLE BARREL ESTATE RUM
12 years, St. Croix)

[ Edited by: Unga Bunga on 2003-07-16 23:44 ]

Aloha and welcome Zombie
Ahhh, sorry but I have to disagree. I kinda like the TV maiTai mix for home use if I cant make one from scratch...it doesnt taste that bad to me, but I like coors lite too. So what do I know.
Your right, Recipes and times can change but names dont necessarily do. But If your going to make a mai tai or call it a mai tai then I think you should follow the recipe to the letter otherwise its not truly a mai tai. Call it something else, or add your name to it so you can keep your version separate from the original. no? Alot of places make their version of a mai tai and then you go and order one and when you get it, it doesnt taste anything like a "real" one.

I don't usually expect to get a 'real mai tai' from a bar unless it is a legit tiki bar. Even those (except TV's) usually screw them up too. Mai Tai has become such a generic drink name to those not 'in the know.'

Making the Mai Tai from scratch does take quite some time and prep work. I can understand using the mix from time to time. Also, Coors Light is delicious.

Unga Bunga,

Your recipe calls for rum from Barbados and St. Croix. Vic's calls for rum from Jaimaca and Martinique. Are you making a Mai Tai?

By my definition (reasonably meet the definition and is excellent in taste) I assume you are. But a purest might reject the choice of rums.

Sometimes I like to use "Citronage", instead of curacao. It is a orange liquer from Mexico. It is finer than Triplesec and Curacao, not as fine as Grand Marnier or Contrieu. In the $18.00 a bottle range, I buy mine at Vons. Makes a great drink.
Mahalo,
Al

On 2003-07-17 07:19, I, Zombie wrote:
Unga Bunga,

Your recipe calls for rum from Barbados and St. Croix. Vic's calls for rum from Jaimaca and Martinique. Are you making a Mai Tai?

By my definition (reasonably meet the definition and is excellent in taste) I assume you are. But a purest might reject the choice of rums.

Ya Zombie, another good point. Ironically the Barbados rum is T.V.'s, so are they being hypocritical? (Side note, this rum is starting to win a lot of tasting contests)
I served a customer a bottle of wine once in a snobby restaurant I use to work. I presented it to him; it was a Talbott Chardonnay from the Sleepy Hollow region, which is simply the part of the vineyard the grapes were grown. He replied,” I can see that, but was it the north or south slope of the vineyard (were only talking about 30 acres)
I called the Winery to please the jerk, and I thought he would be content. Then he snubbedly asked, what fertilizer was used for the grapes. I "threw" the manager at the table to wait on him, and that’s the day when I switched to beer and Rum.

*On 2003-07-17 01:24, Tiki Rider Five-O wrote:*I kinda like the TV maiTai mix for home use if I cant make one from scratch...it doesnt taste that bad to me, but I like coors lite too. So what do I know.

You know what you like, and I agree with you. A Mai Tai made with Vic's mix tastes better (and more authentic) than most Mai Tais I've had served to me in bars (even in tiki bars and bars in Hawaii!). In Hawaii we got the mix, some limes, and a bottle of Myers' and made them ourselves rather than drink the pineapple and grenadine swill they served in most bars. The two exceptions were the "House Without a Key" bar and the Banyan Tree bar at the New Otani Hotel, both in Waikiki. Both bars had good Mai Tais and great atmosphere (beach views).

The mix is primarily orange and almond flavors so it is a good substitute if you don't want to buy (or can't find) curacao and orgeat.

On 2003-07-17 08:32, Alnshely wrote:
Sometimes I like to use "Citronage", instead of curacao. It is a orange liquer from Mexico. It is finer than Triplesec and Curacao, not as fine as Grand Marnier or Contrieu.

I was about to bring this up, and Al - always on the ball - sorta beat me to it. My question: In a pinch, what do you guys think of using Triple Sec when Curacao isn't available. Has anyone done comparisons?

On 2003-07-17 11:42, tikibars wrote:
I was about to bring this up, and Al - always on the ball - sorta beat me to it. My question: In a pinch, what do you guys think of using Triple Sec when Curacao isn't available. Has anyone done comparisons?

I've tasted them side by side and came to these conclusions:

Triple Sec has a subtle orange flavor and is quite sweet - not really enough orange flavor for a good Mai Tai.

Orange Curacao is made from special oranges and so has a different flavor than any other orange liqueur - just right for a Mai Tai.

Cointreau is stronger in flavor than curacao (more tart) and may be too bold for a Mai Tai if one uses 1/2 oz. I've tried it in a Mai Tai and preferred curacao.

Grand Marnier is an orange flavored cognac and also may be too strongly flavored in a Mai Tai unless one uses less than 1/2 oz.

I think the key in a Mai Tai is to let the flavors of the rum come through. Which is why aged rums are better and the flavorings are used sparingly. You don't want orange or almond flavors to dominate the drink.

Mercy... Now I'm thirsty!!!

i'm curious that none of these "authentic" recipes mentions a float of rum. It's always been my impression that the float is one of the hallmarks of the original recipe, but it looks like that may not be the case. Comments on this? For my tastes, a good dark rum float takes a mai tai from excellent to sublime, and I wouldn't make 'em any other way, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks about it...

[ Edited by: Unga Bunga on 2005-03-29 00:07 ]

Unga Bunga and TikiMaxton,

A float is an excellent addition!

Jeez, now I'm getting thirsty!!!

Mai Tai's tonight for sure.

[ Edited by: I, Zombie on 2003-07-17 14:51 ]

On 2003-07-17 13:54, TikiMaxton wrote:
i'm curious that none of these "authentic" recipes mentions a float of rum. It's always been my impression that the float is one of the hallmarks of the original recipe, but it looks like that may not be the case. Comments on this?

The float comes with the "San Francisco Style" Mai Tai at Emeryville. But no mention of it here:

http://www.tradervics.com/mai-tai-1.html

Mark, you go ahead and add it anyway. I've had your Mai Tai and thought it was delicious, float and all!

Also, in the article on the Trader Vic web site it says that Trader Vic switched to Bols brand Curacao in the 1950s as he liked it better than Dukuyper.

Regarding rum, the article says Trader Vic starting using Martinique rum when 17-year-old Wray & Nephew became unavailable because it had the essential nutty and snappy flavor. So, he wasn't just throwing in any old rum. Like Don the Beachcomber he knew of all the differences between rums and he was looking for a specific flavor of rum. It says he later created Trader Vic's Mai Tai Rum by blending certain Jamaican and Martinique rums. But I haven't seen the Mai Tai Rum in any liquor stores around here or at the restaurant.

Floating the Myers on top gives a Mai-Tai that rusty look which - in my mind - distinquishes it at first glance as a Mai-Tai.
Of course, you never know until you actually taste it.
I'm definitely with Maxton on this one.

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-07-17 15:13 ]

On 2003-07-17 14:54, thejab wrote:

The float comes with the "San Francisco Style" Mai Tai at Emeryville. But no mention of it here:

http://www.tradervics.com/mai-tai-1.html

Also, in the article on the Trader Vic web site it says that Trader Vic switched to Bols brand Curacao in the 1950s as he liked it better than Dukuyper.

Regarding rum, the article says Trader Vic starting using Martinique rum when 17-year-old Wray & Nephew became unavailable because it had the essential nutty and snappy flavor. So, he wasn't just throwing in any old rum. Like Don the Beachcomber he knew of all the differences between rums and he was looking for a specific flavor of rum. It says he later created Trader Vic's Mai Tai Rum by blending certain Jamaican and Martinique rums. But I haven't seen the Mai Tai Rum in any liquor stores around here or at the restaurant.

Also in the article it says, "Mai Tai - Roa Ae". In Tahitian this means "Out of This World - The Best". A Tahitian woman I use to live with told me it meant "good for you". I should find a Tahitian dictionary for trivial reasons.
I have one bottle of T.V. rum I bought on line. They sold out and never restocked it.
I pour it like liquid gold. It should be showing up in stores hopefully soon.

Read this thread Friday night and spent the weekend making Mai Tai's. Read all the provided recipes and my own books and set out to get ingrediants, little did I know. The booze was easy. The first good liquor store I found Appleton estates, had like 3 different types and I got the most aged. Also got pussers because I'm a limey and it was mentioned in this thread as a substitute for the Martinique Rum which noone had. As far as Orgeat forget about it. Even went to Mai Kai looking but giftstore closed to 630. No liquor store, no grocery nothing, noone even had heard of it. Went to get some potstickers at a intenational food store and saw Alomond syrup, store owner says he drinks it 3 to one with water, I got it. No rock candy syrup, forget it, get grenadine. Fresh limes are found. Didn't bother with mint, to thirsty at this point. Have to get blue caracau because noone has orange. Hours later I'm home and mixing while the friends beat ice on the concrete for crushed ice. Steaks are getting cold noone cares. Mix it up 2 oz Appleton, 1 1/2 oz pussers, 1 oz blue curucau (duykerpers), 1 oz almond syrup, 1 oz grenedine (I'm a sweettooth), 2 1/2 good size well sqoozed limes, twirlled in ice and poured over my crushed and stomped ice inside my new Moai mugs, straws provided, umbrellas needed! Was good good good, better after tweaking hear and there (more rum!). Will order TV Orgeat and rock syrup asap. Mahalo you all for setting the new tikiphile on his first Mai tai frenzy, will be more.

Bartender! Set 'em up...A round of Mai-tais for the house! ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Nice work McDougall, but Grenadine's a no-no in a Mai Tai around these parts. Make your own rock candy syrup (simple syrup) by mixing equal parts sugar and water and heat until sugar is dissolved. Or use superfine sugar (not powdered) and dissolve it in the lime juice before adding it to the ice. Use the same amount of sugar as syrup or to taste.

The almond syrup and blue curacao are fine substitutes for orgeat and orange curacao.

Another good question- I've always used the recipe of 2 cups of sugar to one cup of water for simple syrup. I see Jabbo goes even stevens. What are other people doing?

I use the recipe out of the Grog Log: 2 pounds sugar, dissolved in 2 cups water.

On 2003-07-22 13:01, martiki6 wrote:
Another good question- I've always used the recipe of 2 cups of sugar to one cup of water for simple syrup. I see Jabbo goes even stevens. What are other people doing?

Grog log recipe. Usually I use superfine sugar instead of simple syrup in cocktails. The way I look at it with simple syrup you're just adding water to your drinks. Adding superfine sugar and mixing before adding ice works best. Try a simple cocktail (like a daquiri) with syrup and then one with a bar spoon of sugar, or more to taste. See which one tastes better.

I've been using Rose's lime juice instead of a real lime - has anyone done a taste test to see if there's a noticable difference?

Fresh lime juice is the soul of a Mai Tai. Along with true dark Jamaican (drier than dark Barbados) and true Martinique rum (St James is a good choice).

Mahalo BK,

Just one more quick question, how do you manage yer limes? Buy a bunch and keep them in the fridge? Or are you good enough to think ahead and buy them fresh before the weekend? If so you may have mo' mai tai mojo than me, my friend :wink:

Double Mahalo, J$

Al of the famous duo AlnShelly had an interesting thing to say regarding the float/hair raiser, and that is since a Mai Tai will be drunk/drank using a straw, by the time you drink the top melted portion of the drink it will still have some kick and won't just be melted ice.

On 2003-11-03 08:34, Basement Kahuna wrote:
Fresh lime juice is the soul of a Mai Tai. Along with true dark Jamaican (drier than dark Barbados) and true Martinique rum (St James is a good choice).

OK, so here's a question....what sort of limes are we talking about? The 'limes' you find in the US are not really limes at all, but a hybred of a South East Asian lime (Citrus aurantifolia) and a citron (a large, thick skinned, leamon like fruit). From my research I believe this was done in the Near East quite a while back so that limes could be grown in a Meditaranian climate. Years back they grew Asian limes here in South Florida (and they became known as 'Key Limes') until the 1926 hurricane wiped out the citrus groves. Then the growers replaced the Key Lime trees with the bright green Persian or Tahitian limes (Citrus latifolia) because they are easier to grow, easier to pick (no thorns), and due to the much thicker skin, are easier and more economical to ship. And YES there is quite a difference in flavor!

To be quite honest, with 20+ years of international professional cookery under my belt, you guys put most chefs to shame with your purist attitudes about recipes! :lol: :roll:

In the Philippines I was showing the locals (that thought a Mai Tai was made with pineapple juice and grenadine YUK!) how to make a 'real' Mai Tai. I used 2 shots of the local 12 year old Tanduay gold rum, 1/2 a shot of triple sec, a shot of Amaretto, 1/2 shot of simple syrup and the juice of 2 calamansi 'limes' (they are even smaller and seedier than key limes, but a bit orange in color and awesome!). They were surprised by what a heady, dry, sophisticated drink this was, compared to the goop they were used to making.

[ Edited by: Rattiki on 2003-11-04 00:50 ]

On 2003-11-03 10:52, Johnny Dollar wrote:
Mahalo BK,

Just one more quick question, how do you manage yer limes? Buy a bunch and keep them in the fridge? Or are you good enough to think ahead and buy them fresh before the weekend? If so you may have mo' mai tai mojo than me, my friend :wink:

Double Mahalo, J$

...You can just keep them in the fridge. They'll last about a week. Same for lemons.