allow me to advocate for a "drier" mai tai

no, i don't mean my suggestion a few days ago that a "dry" mai tai consists of 2 ounces of 15 yr aged rum, with nothing added. (a whole 'nother discussion).

But, let me recommend, trying out the mai tai with a slight reduction in the volume of non-rum ingredients. What I've been going with specifically = 2 oz rum, 1 teaspoon lime, 2 teaspoons orgeat, and 2 teaspoons curacao or triple sec. Serve with mint sprig over a snow cone of ice as always.

I find that the "dry" variation is tastier, and better permits an appreciation for the flavors of the rums employed in the drink. (and, I'm only using Appleton V/X and St. James Ambre-- imagine how much much more the rums will be appreciated with a "dry" approach when using the $30+ Appleton 12 y.o. and the $30+ Clement that appears to be the number one consensus for mai tai mixing). (also- I've enjoyed a mix of 1 oz El Dorado 12 y.o., w/half oz Appleton V/X and half oz. St. James Ambre- very tasty).

I have to think, that back in the 30's or 40's when the mai tai was invented, Americans were mostly drinking gin and whiskey. Rum was not the popular booze of the time. It made sense then to dilute sipping rums with mixers in order to sell it to the masses.

But, times have changed. The American palate has changed. Other liquor and culinary recipes have evolved. Can Tiki not evolve?

The martini, for example, is preferred drier today than when invented. (Indeed, some prefer just a mist of vermouth). Cigar blends have become bolder (did you know, that back in the day the most popular cigar in the U.S. was the mild green "candela" wrapper? now, we prefer bold Tatuaje, Padron, and OpusX cigar blends). Even our cuisine has become bolder, spicier, more flavorful.

And so, it seems to me via a natural evolution, with no disrespect to history, that today's mai tai ought to be a more rum-forward blend.

On 2011-04-17 11:44, thePorpoise wrote:
The martini, for example, is preferred drier today than when invented. (Indeed, some prefer just a mist of vermouth).

No people prefer to pretend that strait gin or (gasp) vodka is a martini. If I want a few fingers of gin I'll order a few fingers of gin, if I order a martini and some nitwhit gives me strait gin with atomized vermouth, sweet vermouth (unless specifically requested), or vodka involved anywhere in the process it should be considered as a extenuating circumstance in the homicide trial.

I still don't understand why people feel some need to mutilate the herbal bliss of a martini rather than admitting they don't like them and moving on to some flavorless vodka concoction.

On 2011-04-17 11:44, thePorpoise wrote:
Cigar blends have become bolder (did you know, that back in the day the most popular cigar in the U.S. was the mild green "candela" wrapper? now, we prefer bold Tatuaje, Padron, and OpusX cigar blends). Even our cuisine has become bolder, spicier, more flavorful.

And so, it seems to me via a natural evolution, with no disrespect to history, that today's mai tai ought to be a more rum-forward blend.

Oh, oh, oh....

Did you know, that a well made candela cigar can run circles around some of the nitwit concoctions they have today?

I have been smoking cigars for 35 years and I love them dark and oily (just like my women) as well as lightly tanned and from Connecticut (sort of like me); but most of all, I like'em green, Just Like James T. Kirk!!!!!.

By the way, concur with capheind, I like my martini -well made. Only MFCS drink that SEFCLDF.

Who knew posting about tiki could be so contentious?

[ Edited by: telescopes 2011-04-17 16:02 ]

I can come up with other examples of the collective changing cuisine/booze palate if you guys prefer. crikey.

:lol:

[ Edited by: thePorpoise 2011-04-17 19:22 ]

"But, let me recommend, trying out the mai tai with a slight reduction in the volume of non-rum ingredients"

I will confess that I am a drinking lightweight (I can get a good buzz off one Mike's Hard Lemonade - it makes me a cheap date) I had a Mai Tai at Don the Beachcombers a while back, I thought it was all rum :o What is there to reduce? :lol:

On 2011-04-17 19:21, thePorpoise wrote:
I can come up with other examples of the collective changing cuisine/booze palate if you guys prefer. crikey.

:lol:

[ Edited by: thePorpoise 2011-04-17 19:22 ]

I can come up with other examples of the collective changing cuisine/booze palate if you guys prefer. crikey.

:lol:

[ Edited by: thePorpoise 2011-04-17 19:22 ]

The whole point of retro is not to be revisionist, but rather to revisit.

Yes, society changes and it moves on. Sometimes for best, sometimes for not. I think the martini is one where so many of our drinkers have just gotten it wrong. First, they believe that vodka is best kept in the fridge so that it doesn't dilute the ice and mix with wateer - Huh, to quote Sarah Palin, and I so rarely do..."wtf".

Secondly, they believe a good mixed drink is best served straight. To quote the Donald, and I never do, "Show me the birth certificate."

Third, as if this wasn't enough, a martini is dry if it doesn't have much or little or even none of dry vermouth.

Okay, let's think about this. A sweet martini has sweet vermouth. A dry martini has dry vermouth. Either Italian or French, sweet or dry, you get to choose. The lack of vermouth does not make a martini dry. It makes it not a martini.

Since when did straight vodka become a martini? And yet, it has. Why? Who made this decision? I''ll tell you. Idiots who don't know what the hell they are talking about.

I order Scotch. I order it neat. Without ice, without being shaken. Just simply put, neat.

If you want a shot of vodka, do the same. Don't say you want it shaken with ice and then call it a martini. Because as everyone knows, martinis should be stirred....NOT SHAKEN!!!

If I want my Scotch cold, I have it stirred with a little ice. The ice melts, it opens up the scotch, and voila, ....

I don't shake it and call it a Scotch Martini. Why? Because MARTINI does not mean "SHAKEN with ICE!"

Martini means.... mixed with vermouth.

God help us. Yes, examples exist far and wide that demonstrate how society has changed. But guess what....Coitus still means that the male genital was inserted through the female genital. Many other examples abound regarding that topic, but Coitus still means what it means.

And for this writer, and drinker, Martini still means Gin mixed with vermouth and ice.

Amen!

Okay, the edit was to remind you that all of this was meant in good humor.

Amen again.

Who knew posting about tiki could be so contentious?

[ Edited by: telescopes 2011-04-17 20:51 ]

Only MFCS drink that SEFCLDF.

translate please : )

On 2011-04-18 09:04, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:

Only MFCS drink that SEFCLDF.

translate please : )

I'd love to, but I would get kicked off for life.

Basically, nah, I just can't go there.

I'd love to, but I would get kicked off for life.

Basically, nah, I just can't go there.

Oh well. At least we see eye to eye on the martini issue. You must cringe when you hear apple-tini, huh?

Anyhow, back to the issue of a drier Mai Tai. It sounds like a good idea to dry it up a bit as I have also felt that the complexity of some of the aged rums get somewhat lost with the other ingredients. With a good sipping rum, I tend to drink it in one of three ways: neat, with one ice cube, or with a squeeze of lime.

On 2011-04-18 10:13, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:

I'd love to, but I would get kicked off for life.

Basically, nah, I just can't go there.

Oh well. At least we see eye to eye on the martini issue. You must cringe when you hear apple-tini, huh?

Anyhow, back to the issue of a drier Mai Tai. It sounds like a good idea to dry it up a bit as I have also felt that the complexity of some of the aged rums get somewhat lost with the other ingredients. With a good sipping rum, I tend to drink it in one of three ways: neat, with one ice cube, or with a squeeze of lime.

I just can't believe what they've done to the martini. Such a classic drink gone south. I so agree with your take on rum. What amazes me is how people are so willing to mix anything but vermouth with their martini's.

You can always start adding vermouth to your rum (El Presidente). Just don't add Lillet Blanc to your gin....or olives to your mai tai. :P

I agree re martinis, but not candelas!

Read up on John Martin and his marketing of Smirnoff vodka in the 1950's to see how vodka overtook gin for martinis and most everything else as a base for cocktails.

And to add my $.02 to the topic, classics are classics for a reason. I'm certainly OK with modifying classic cocktail recipes, but you should definitely delineate the new recipe. I would like to think that if I order a Manhattan, I'm going to get a Manhattan, not your take on a Manhattan, unless it specifically states that.

Of course, I live in a cocktail-impaired area of the world where you are lucky if the drink you get even remotely resembles what it is supposed to be.

Actually I've had the Appletini (mostly because I'm a very large man and it amuses me to see wait staff and patrons want to say something and yet still keep it muzzled) I don't have a problem with adding tini to something, but calling something X Martini (chocolate martini, cool-whip martini whatever) kinda bothers me when nowhere in the drink is there even the rudiments of a fine martini. You can change of the gnosh, you can add some bitters, I'm even tolerant of a twist of lime or some olive juice, but I've ended friendships when someone asked to go further than 5:1 (or an FDR, best president ever)

On 2011-04-18 15:06, capheind wrote:
....but I've ended friendships when someone asked to go further than 5:1 (or an FDR, best president ever)

Further as in 7:1??? Or further as in the 2:1 for the FDR? Didn't the martini start off as a 1:1 waaaaay back? [ edit: sweet baby Jesus! I opened up a can of worms on that google search.] BRB, looking it up. Now, I'm thirsty.

I have made some tasty 7:1 martinis with a dash of orange bitters, a lemon twist, and a couple drops of simple syrup. Not my preferred but folks that don't like martinis like this version.

Man, this thread's been derailed left and right.

Now....who soaks their olives in vermouth?

[ Edited by: jingleheimerschmidt 2011-04-18 16:21 ]

On 2011-04-18 13:57, TikiHardBop wrote:
Read up on John Martin and his marketing of Smirnoff vodka in the 1950's to see how vodka overtook gin for martinis and most everything else as a base for cocktails.

And to add my $.02 to the topic, classics are classics for a reason. I'm certainly OK with modifying classic cocktail recipes, but you should definitely delineate the new recipe. I would like to think that if I order a Manhattan, I'm going to get a Manhattan, not your take on a Manhattan, unless it specifically states that.

Of course, I live in a cocktail-impaired area of the world where you are lucky if the drink you get even remotely resembles what it is supposed to be.

Manhattan - Maybe, just maybe they can make that. I doubt it. What you will get most likely is Jack D with lots of branch water, a splash of bitters, and a cherry. I doubt you'll see any sweet vermouth.

Old Fashioned - Don't even get me started. Maybe, just maybe they can make that. I doubt it. What you will get most likely is Jack D with lots of branch water, a splash of bitters, and a muddled cherry with an orange slice.

Whiskey Sour - Huh. What you'll get is Jack D with lots of sweet and sour, lots of branch water, a cherry and and orange slice.

What is this, "Theme and Variation on Idiocy!@!!!!"

And by the way, Candela Cigars ARE VINTAGE Tiki. Especially if they were Colomas.

Telescopes may be an astronomer by trade for all I know, but, am I the only one who prefers to think of him/her as an angry Greek, frothily pounding out his/her posts on a big-ass desktop keyboard, whose name is pronounced "tele-ska-pays?"

On 2011-04-18 21:36, thePorpoise wrote:
Telescopes may be an astronomer by trade for all I know, but, am I the only one who prefers to think of him/her as an angry Greek, frothily pounding out his/her posts on a big-ass desktop keyboard, whose name is pronounced "tele-ska-pays?"

A small Apple laptop, I'll have you know!

Greek....

Not that there's anything wrong with that....

According to the last three censuses over the last 30 years... I am a Pacific Islander. Since I have put on a little weight recently, I am more specifically listed as a Samoan on this last one.

That makes me officially "tiki" according to official Government records going back 30 years.

You know what, I am going to light up the last of my ancient Colomas and smoke away.

And no, I am not "angry"

I prefer to think of it more as tribal passion.

havent heard of Colomas before, where were they made?

On 2011-04-18 09:32, telescopes wrote:

On 2011-04-18 09:04, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:

Only MFCS drink that SEFCLDF.

translate please : )

I'd love to, but I would get kicked off for life.

Basically, nah, I just can't go there.

I made out "melon-farming cork sockers" but I can't figure out the rest :)

On 2011-04-19 09:53, Jason Wickedly wrote:
I made out "melon-farming cork sockers" but I can't figure out the rest :)

Haha. That's pretty close to what I had in mind as well, as for the rest, I have no idea either.

Further as in less vermouth than one part to five parts gin. The vermouth is supposed to be there.

Don't get me wrong, I get the hate. For so long vermouth in this country was one step above vinegar, it was just a cheap filler used in such moderation that you couldn't taste it. But these days we have access to decent sipping vermouth's, and even Noilly Prat has gone back to their original recipe.

(yes the original martini was a 1:1, and personally if I have a decent sipping vermouth I'm game. But as I remember FDR's chosen martini was 5:1, although I could be off)

To the topic of changing classic tiki drinks.... Its your home, make them how you like them. But then again I'm not into Tiki for Nostalgia (how could I be, when I started drinking tiki bars were just retro-bars along the coast) I'm into it because I prefer the drinks, the atmosphere, and some of the music. When I have the space/time/money for a home bar I might go Bikini Atoll nuclear with mutant natives (1950's green mutants with tentacles, not real cancer patient mutant) and novelty Geiger counters.